Presence throughout the day

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)

Presence throughout the day

Postby Plumcake » Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:53 pm

Hi,

I like to practise presence all the day, buts its really stressful.
Presence in mediation and in between works fine, but "holding" awareness all the day...

- when I'm focussing on one thing, e.g. feeling my hands while washing, is stressful after a certain period of time,
- a "soft mind" which means to be aware of everything on the inside and outside with a focus, is stressful too
- and the most stressful: "Breaking up" a thought-chain, when I'm noticing that I'm thinking. This really immediately results a tension in my head and stomache.

But to be non-present in daily life is also not a good option. Because I keep thinking and thinking and worring...
(Does not matter what I'm thinking or worring about. Often It's random, nothing specific, It "just" became a bad behavoir / conditioning)
But I'd like to relax and not to force myself 24/7 to use a technique (holding the awareness).

Do you have pracitcal tipps for me not to drown in thoughts and be relaxed?

Greetings from Germany
Plumcake
Plumcake
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:22 pm
Location: Old Germany

Re: Presence throughout the day

Postby Being » Sun Nov 29, 2015 2:09 am

___________________
Hi Plumcake.
I have an admission to make Plumcake. I checked out some of your other posts. Something clicked in me when reading your grievances. I picked up on the Anxiety that seemed to emanate from your posts. I'm a chronic sufferer myself and have been pensioned off with a number of labels to match.

Your post reminds me of Eckhart saying something about practice. I'm pretty sure it's a struggle to practice anything "all day", not to mention counter productive. One thing I picked up from John Kabit-Zin, with regard to mindfulness ... was the importance of paying attention in an effortless way. Whilst many people like to draw distinctions between both teachers, I enjoy drawing similarities from many.

Soft Mind - Soft Eyes:
You used the word stress quite often in your above post. The first place to de-stress the body is with relaxing the eyes. Inhabit The Body is something else that now comes to mind. I can think of no better example or place to start than the eyes.

Coming to understand what, why and how to practice sets our intent. John Kabat-Zin introduced me to mindfulness through non-judgmental awareness, whilst Eckhart helped me to dis-identify from incessant thinking via a similar process ... but on another level. Whilst the teachings are being guided somewhat differently, the direction is pretty much the same. FEEL - over intellectualizing.

Body Scanning is one method. But if your like me - and still suffering with a rather pent up "Pain Body" - Learning to soften your eyes is a great way to detach from the toxicity of incessant thinking.

Learning to catch myself "Generating Toxicity through Incessant Thinking" rather than getting wrapped in the thoughts themselves is the overall aim of what I term my practice. First I need head space in order to know anything is spinning at all. Like I said, I am an extreme case. Softening the eyes can be done anywhere and anytime. No need to lay down, find a quiet place or retreat into some rare and typically unavailable space. Once you come to see, it's all in our minds - you can find freedom and peace in the most unlikeliest of places.

FEELing the frustration is better than labeling it - I am getting better at making my frustration trigger a soft eye response. First I remind myself at how ugly and bent up I must look when I allow frustration to embed itself within. I then ask myself questions - I INQUIRE (like Bryon Katie [book "Loving What is"] often suggests) - I question the process and what is taking place withing myself, "Is this me?" - "Is this helping?" - "Do I really believe these thoughts?" - "I'm doing it again, aren't I?" and so on. To be sure, I am still thinking - but the nature of it is then different. I am taking control rather than seeking it. However in order to reach such a controlling state [one that does not seek it], I first have to teach myself how to notice when I am losing it. I tend to lose it when I feed into the cycle of conditioning which falls into the bla bla bla bla → cravings, desires, wants and then into the more pious self-righteous all knowing self professed guru, intellectualizing philosophers - yadda yadda OH BOY ... here comes that incessant mind again.

John boy comes to the rescue and says "take a breath" - only then does Echkart start to make sense, then out of nowhere does Byron Katie then write a book called "Loving What is"
____________________________________________________________________

Nice to meet to you Plumcake.
I am srry I have not been more able to be concise. I can identify with much of the frustrations of quietening the mind, however think Echkart makes a lot of sense with the dis-idenfifaction process which I have taken to mean a number of things for myself.

Ultimately it is how we attach ourselves to those thoughts inside our heads that either makes us or breaks us. That I FEEL was the most beatifically of replies to your other threads. I really don't know much myself. Rather than identify myself in the most trivial of ways we so often do, I thought I would make my first post here in some kind of attempt to share how this anxious ego - is somewhat more less anxious when shooting the breeze.

Practice - but Don't see it as a practice - Just Be - above all ... do not worry about what others think. We are our own audience - if we make connections in that process, then the more will will grow ... but think nothing of it.

Happiness is such a cliche. Many of us living in such a toxic world and being as sick as we be; are content to experience peace and find joy within the pain and suffering that inhabits our body, but can only do so when inhabiting our bodies separate to that conditioning that plagues our world. Depersonalizing it comes in the form of detaching myself from society in so many ways. I don't mind the pain of growing old compared to that of the negative imprinting humans impose upon themselves.

Focus on what you feel is helpful to you and don't fight what comes to mind.

Wishing you all the best Plamcake.
Peace.
Being
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:29 pm

Re: Presence throughout the day

Postby dijmart » Sun Nov 29, 2015 7:37 am

Check out shiningworld.com or nevernotpresent.com for some traditional Vedanta for westerners. I'm reading one of James Swartz books. He's been teaching Vedanta for over 40 years. Self knowledge can lead to the truth, the rest imo will have you chasing your tail.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 2084
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Presence throughout the day

Postby Plumcake » Mon Nov 30, 2015 2:13 pm

Thx for reply.

But - really no concrete tipps for my question, from no one??
I mean, "everybody" here's talking about presence. This board is about presence^^

By the way, I practise body scan/breath taking/just beeing..
But thats not what I was asking for.
Plumcake
 
Posts: 25
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2014 6:22 pm
Location: Old Germany

Re: Presence throughout the day

Postby Being » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:41 pm

I'm sorry you feel that way Plumcake.

Offerings have been made. Perhaps not in the form of a quick how to guide. I'm still new here myself, but from what I can gather, the topic of presence is also sothing that has no quick fix.

The breath is the first place to start. But there is also no quick fix to that. It can take years to master the art of breathing. None the less, it is a great place to start. A place that leads to presence. It's virtually imossible to inhabit the body whilst being caught up in the mind.

Like I said - I am on a pension due to mental instability. I know what it is like to have your thoughts diable you. I won't bore you with detailed stories as I am learning to let go of such limiting adictions. I will try once more to give you somthing of worth.

I too already knew how to breath; or so Ithought I did. I was at pro at body scan decades before I had even heard the term. My body was much more energized then, more vibrant, however carried with me a false sense of security that soon wore me down. Breathing was not so easy, I could no longer feel my body, yet despite feeling so lathargic I could often be found in a fit of rage as I struggled with the thougts in my head. Like I said - " I was pensioned off."

That's the short verion - but more so only given in the context of severity. Your description of what your looking for imo calls for me to draw some context before handing you answers on a platter. I am here to tell you that whil'st living a simple life is indeed the answer to humanities current sick state of being, that there is no easy way out of the residual effect our species has brought upon itself in its long standing quest to live easier lives. The very notion itself gives under the weight of the Ego of which Tolle talks so much about. Despite myself being what is termed a slow learner, It's only natural that waking up from years of conditioning is going to take quite some time.

Anyways - Whilst I too, thought I knew it all ... clearly... clearly I did not.

Exercsise helped, but does not last for ever. A realization that leads to longer lasting methods:

Eating Healthy was an enlightening experiance and still is.

Water Fasting also enightening, however can be as adcitive as eating. None the less of more benifit to me than not.

No more consuming toxins and dialing back all my medications - including anitphycotics and other mood altering drugs.
_______________________________

I did way many other things before that little list above, however it took a lot more suffering before I was ready to give up the fight inside my head. I tried Bio-FeedBack sound therpay - gave up many addcitiions - went to varioius groups - still even cling to a one on one therapist and have a mentor who comes to give support.

There is no quick fix my friend. Whilst some of us require more work than others, I believe it takes time for all.

If I could leave you with a short cut -

Look deep inside yourself - Tell your stories from the core - Talk about your experiance until such a point there is no more to talk about. Whilst I still at times struggle with thoughts, I no longer fight as I once did. My story telling has changed for the better, where I now only draw from said experiance in order to grow; or is always my aim.

Get some head space man ... and experinace more of what you have not yet felt ... go deeper inside and find the answers for yourself.

I leave you with that.
I wish you all the best with that.

PS - forgive me for typos and spelling ... I did this from my phone and bluetooth keybaord.
I look forward to reading more in this forum myself.
Being
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 10:29 pm

Re: Presence throughout the day

Postby tod » Wed Dec 02, 2015 9:15 pm

Plumcake wrote:Hi,

I like to practise presence all the day, buts its really stressful.
Presence in mediation and in between works fine, but "holding" awareness all the day...

- when I'm focussing on one thing, e.g. feeling my hands while washing, is stressful after a certain period of time,
- a "soft mind" which means to be aware of everything on the inside and outside with a focus, is stressful too
- and the most stressful: "Breaking up" a thought-chain, when I'm noticing that I'm thinking. This really immediately results a tension in my head and stomache.

But to be non-present in daily life is also not a good option. Because I keep thinking and thinking and worring...
(Does not matter what I'm thinking or worring about. Often It's random, nothing specific, It "just" became a bad behavoir / conditioning)
But I'd like to relax and not to force myself 24/7 to use a technique (holding the awareness).

Do you have pracitcal tipps for me not to drown in thoughts and be relaxed?

Greetings from Germany
Plumcake


Hi Plumcake,

You do not have to hold awareness all day as awareness is what you are. It sounds as though you have not discriminated what you are (presence, awaremess) from what you think you are (Plumcake).

Once this discrimination is more or less clear, you can be as you are (awareness, which does not feel like anything) and observe what you sometimes think you are doing whatever it may be doing.

All this does not mean that you do not sometimes, and sometimes quite often, think you are someone doing something. The important point being that you know what you really are.

As this knowledge becomes firmer you notice that you are not so fearful/anxious simply because you know that you are not primarily what you think you are. IOW you are not so 'invested' in the world.

I think you may find what Dijmart suggested helpful.

With best wishes,
tod
 
Posts: 612
Joined: Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:25 pm
Location: New Zealand


Return to Questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest