How do you coexist with the Ego while not being identified

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How do you coexist with the Ego while not being identified

Postby jtightlips21 » Tue Sep 06, 2016 5:10 pm

I find that trying to be egoless just creates an ego itself, something like a Sadhu, or a monastic. Plus, sensual experience, thoughts, memories/time and emotions are part of our consciousness, in my opinion. However, I think its also just as unconscious to obsess and identify with Egolessness. But I find that the Ego can be a major burden, but also a necessity. I have found that the Ego will always think that it can find ultimate truth in concepts, and will be intolerant against any challenges to their views. Another thing I find the Ego does is that it creates a particular image of something and does not like to have it, for example, I find for myself that it is hard for me to see modern American architecture in other countries, due to the image I have such as China of Pagodas, India of domed palaces, or England with gothic architecture. Another burden of the Ego is that it always wants what it cannot have, and never wants what it does have. Hence always a longing for progress and cannot imagine reaching a goal.
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Re: How do you coexist with the Ego while not being identifi

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Thu Sep 08, 2016 8:50 pm

I've heard a good teaching on this recently which helps give some balance to the ego vs no ego situation. According to the teaching there is a dysfunctional type of ego called ego-centricity - the individual sense of self, the feeling of being this specific individual, that believes that this individual's needs are the center of the universe, that Reality should succumb to all it's desires and fears. This effort to pressure Reality to it's selfishness is the cause of suffering.

There is also a functional type of ego called personal essence. It is also the individual sense of self but it does not see itself as the center of the universe and does not try and force Reality to it's will. Instead it sees Life / Consciousness as the center and sees itself as an expression of that Consciousness - a vehicle for the Divine, which it surrenders itself to. This personal essence also has likes and dislikes which make it this unique expression of Consciousness. Personal essence does not dedicate enormous effort to pressure Reality and instead allows Reality to flow through it without obstructing it - creating the experience of selfless peace and joy rather than suffering.

I feel the teaching of no ego was probably pointing to this idea of personal essence rather than being some tightly bound concept of an abstract lack of any personal experience whatsoever. As you say, there are some huge issues when adopting a rigid concept of no ego. It's possible to get in a real mess if sticking to that idea, so I think it's important we explore and share our experiences of moving from ego-centricity into personal essence.

Would you agree with this idea JTL?
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Re: How do you coexist with the Ego while not being identifi

Postby rachMiel » Fri Sep 09, 2016 1:06 am

EnterZenFromThere wrote:There is aalso a functional type of ego called personal essence. It is also the individual sense of self but it does not see itself as the center of the universe and does not try and force Reality to it's will. Instead it sees Life / Consciousness as the center and sees itself as an expression of that Consciousness - a vehicle for the Divine, which it surrenders itself to. This personal essence also has likes and dislikes which make it this unique expression of Consciousness. Personal essence does not dedicate enormous effort to pressure Reality and instead allows Reality to flow through it without obstructing it - creating the experience of selfless peace and joy rather than suffering.

Sweet!

Personal essence knows itself to be both the wave and the ocean ... and ultimately, water itself. Is that about right?
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Re: How do you coexist with the Ego while not being identifi

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Fri Sep 09, 2016 12:52 pm

Yeah it's the personality which knows itself to be included in the full experience of Life as a whole. So it doesn't feel the need to fight with Life, because it IS Life!

By moving with the current of Life, personal essence has far more creative power behind it to solve problems and create a peaceful and joyful experience in it's every day activites.

It's kind of the You that Life wants you to be..!
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Re: How do you coexist with the Ego while not being identifi

Postby rachMiel » Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:00 pm

I've been a passionate believer in the reality and worth of the individual (human, plant, rock, atom, etc.) pretty much since I started thinking about all dis stuff (many a year ago). Heck, my personal musical tagline is: Compose my self.

Studying Eastern philosophy/spirituality has convinced me of the reality and worth (if that's the right word) of the totality.

For me, these two views co-exist harmoniously ... and mysteriously. The individual in the totality; the totality in the individual. The wave, the ocean, the water. But it's been really difficult to find teachings that embrace both equally. Most Eastern dharma strives to unravel the self/individual (which is fine) and ultimately relegate it to mere maya/illusion, a bit of undigested beef (not so fine for me). Most Western philosophy regards the totality in a clinical, quasi-objective/scientific way that leaves me rather chilly.

But the approaches you've been mentioning seem like a delightful synthesis of the individual/totality perspectives. It's heartening to know they exist! Got any suggestions for teachings to read that go into this? Thanks!
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Re: How do you coexist with the Ego while not being identifi

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Fri Sep 09, 2016 3:49 pm

I found that very moving Rach. It's hard to put into words why. I think because I am passionate that both the individual and the total are equally vital and I'm so heartened to see you share that same passion here.

I agree that many teachings focus more on one side than another. I suspect that most of the established spiritual traditions contain a deep and balance view if we have the eyes to see it. Sometimes it can be quite well hidden though. Zen Buddhism seems like a good example as it is obviously focused on emptiness through deconditioning, but also has a devoted side it's just not so in your face!

I would definitely recommend my teacher (obviously!) Francis Bennett who has a very balanced approach. His friend Loch Kelly who also teaches within Adya's Open Gate Sanga has a very approachable and balanced style. Those two both keep it simple and clear without tonnes of esoteric baggage to sift through. Adya himself is fantastic in my opinion, though some may say he is more oriented toward emptiness due to his background in Zen. That said he has a very strong devotional side and apprecation for the individual, though it may not come through clearly in some of his teachings. Steve Taylor is also wonderful. He's a companion of Eckhart Tolle. He's a transpersonal psychology by profession so has a contempory Western take on things. Eckhart Tolle himself is also wonderful.

Francis Bennet has a Facebook page which he writes posts into most days. I find it very helpful for orienting myself.

:)
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Re: How do you coexist with the Ego while not being identifi

Postby rachMiel » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:42 am

:-) Just followed his Facebook page. Thanks!
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Re: How do you coexist with the Ego while not being identifi

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:33 am

EnterZenFromThere wrote:Yeah it's the personality which knows itself to be included in the full experience of Life as a whole. So it doesn't feel the need to fight with Life, because it IS Life!

By moving with the current of Life, personal essence has far more creative power behind it to solve problems and create a peaceful and joyful experience in it's every day activites.

It's kind of the You that Life wants you to be..!


Jack, good to see you back on here. It's been a while for both of us. And Rach, great to see you too. It's really great connecting with you guys again. I miss talking to you guys. I've gone through such a "personal" transformation over the past year and largely over the last five months or so and I look forward to sharing more of my recent experiences with you guys. This forum was such a haven for my initial awakening experience and my path has evolved in so many different ways since I first came on here, but you guys were such a big part of it in our discussions. So, I'm glad to see both of you still going well.

This quote above, is so beautifully said, and really resonates with my own deep experience of late and really where I am at right now. Thank you.
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Re: How do you coexist with the Ego while not being identifi

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:54 am

Good to see you too E2B - lovely to see some familiar faces! I'm glad you resonate with those words. They're a paraphrasing of my teacher, Francis. I think it's such an integral part of the path to fully embrace our own uniqueness as an exclusive entity. Why would the Infinite Love come into a limited form other than to love and appreciate it's unique qualities?!

I'd love to hear about your experiences if you feel like sharing. I look forward to that :)
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Re: How do you coexist with the Ego while not being identifi

Postby Onceler » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:59 pm

Good thread, everyone! I rez with the personal essence construct of ego, Enter Zen.
Last edited by Onceler on Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How do you coexist with the Ego while not being identifi

Postby rachMiel » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:00 pm

I'm rezzing with all of yas. :-)

Like I said, it's really interesting to see we've all moved in more or less the same direction. For me it's a sign that this is quite possibly the "right" direction.

My challenge continues to be: living my understanding. It's as if a part of me (and not just the intellect, gut/heart too) gets the message loud and clear ... and another part of me just keeps doing/feeling what it has done/felt since before the understanding dawned on me. I guess I'm not (yet) walking the talk.

Are you?
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Re: How do you coexist with the Ego while not being identifi

Postby EnterZenFromThere » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:16 pm

I find it heartening that we're sharing these new developments. Sometimes I wonder if humanity will make it. When I see people coming together like this, I think there is hope.

Rach, I think your photo says a great deal about your comment. That there is a light and dark that are co-existing together within you, spiraling into one another as you evolve. The light needs to touch the dark in order for it to be cleansed. In that touch, the full extent of the dark is revealed and the pain of that unconsciousness is brought into our knowing. As we shift more into the light we become more able to allow the dark to be touched and don't hold back from the pain that, in weaker times, we could not bare.

The process of cleansing that I feel you are pointing to is one that I doubt ever really ends Rach. It just becomes easier to go through it as we integrate our awakened consciousness into deeper and deeper levels of our being - across every dimension of our lives, from the big and grand to the small and ordinary.

You sound like you are living it to me. It's just a case of seeing where needs to be included in our open heart and having the courage to stand vulnerable and naked and aware so we remain open enough to bring the pain into the fold where it is immolated in the everlasting light of our presence.
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Re: How do you coexist with the Ego while not being identifi

Postby Enlightened2B » Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:31 pm

Thanks for the welcome Jack and yes, I will be sharing my experiences soon. Good to see you guys
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Re: How do you coexist with the Ego while not being identifi

Postby rachMiel » Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:18 am

Thanks, Jack, for the encouragement. :-)

I derive so much pleasure from the worlds of thought and form that it often prevents me from experiencing the joy of pure being. (For me, the latter can only happen, directly at least, when the everyday pleasure-driven mind is quiet.) I don't want to give up thought/form pleasure ... love it way too much! ... I'd just like to give pure being more air time in my life.
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Re: How do you coexist with the Ego while not being identifi

Postby Onceler » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:51 am

rachMiel wrote:I'm rezzing with all of yas. :-)

Like I said, it's really interesting to see we've all moved in more or less the same direction. For me it's a sign that this is quite possibly the "right" direction.

My challenge continues to be: living my understanding. It's as if a part of me (and not just the intellect, gut/heart too) gets the message loud and clear ... and another part of me just keeps doing/feeling what it has done/felt since before the understanding dawned on me. I guess I'm not (yet) walking the talk.

Are you?



I understand what you're saying and agree. I feel that every day I'm just bloody laying it out there, bare bones, chips may fall....insert cliche. The difference is that I really don't care about integration as much as I used to, nor do I care as much about outcome and reaching some fuzzy ideal. Ironically, this may be as good as it gets. If so, that's okay.

I've recently incorporated a meditation practice back into my day and it's startlingly simple. I quickly get into a state where I oscillate between verbal thought and being.....the being states last longer with each oscillation. I guess I had to put some distance between my last formal practice. This feels like a reboot every day and I start fresh only to be undone by the inner and outer distractions and stressors of the day. I used to find the daily wear and tear and undoing of meditative states intolerable. Now I see the mending and the unraveling as both lovely in their own way.
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