The flooding back in of thoughts

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The flooding back in of thoughts

Postby Bolgerisdashizz » Wed Oct 12, 2016 10:46 pm

Hi guys,
My name is Chris and im from Ireland. I am somewhat new to this and too the teachings of Eck

I would like to describe my experience and see if you guys can help me out or have had the similar experience. This question has prob come up before from a newbie.

After i meditate i have the feeling of presence and it stays with me for about 2-3 mins then like an overwhelming flood of thoughts tries to rush back in and eventully it does. I lose my state of presence and get wrapped up in thought. Its really annoying i have to say.
Its like a breach in a dam that starts with a little flood, then the whole dam gets swept away with the flood of thoughts that come in.
Does anybody recognize this? And could you please give me some advice on this.

Thank you very much , Chris
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Re: The flooding back in of thoughts

Postby rachMiel » Thu Oct 13, 2016 3:36 pm

Welcome to the forum, Chris.

1. What you are experiencing is so common as to be just about universal. So you're in good company!

2. My guess is what's happening is: Your I/ego, which has a mind of its own, gets angry and frightened at not being captain of the ship (ego is dethroned in presence), so it rushes back in to "set things right." You experience this as a flood of thoughts.

3. The fix? Keep at it, the ego/I will eventually calm down. And in the meantime if the thoughts come rushing back in, just sit back and let them do their thing, without giving them power or attention. (Easier said than done, but doable.) Visualize them as a train rushing by, but don't climb aboard. And keep your eyes on the prize: to know/feel/be the real you (Self).
“At the still point of the turning world.” T. S. Eliot
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Re: The flooding back in of thoughts

Postby dijmart » Sat Oct 15, 2016 4:44 am

During meditation the minds attention was focused inward towards the Self (awareness) or another way to say it is, the "I AM" was focused on itself, therefore thoughts can slow or stop all together.

When the minds attention shifts back outward, towards "the world" or the "I AM" is focused on I AM this and that, instead of on itself, thoughts come back. The person you appear to be doesn't have control over the thoughts that appear..you don't know what thought will appear in 2 minutes from now, do you? They come from Ishvara (or god), the creator. Who is responsible for creating who you appear to be, the Jiva (or person). You only have limited control over what thoughts you give your attention to, which depends largely upon your conditioning, habits, beliefs, past actions, ect.

When you know without any doubts, through the intellect, that you are awareness and not the person you are associated with, then you will be free to entertain the thoughts you seem to have or not. As you will see them as existing, but not ultimately real. As they are objects "appearing" to you (awareness). Yep, you'll still have pain and pleasure, good and bad (if you judge it that way), but suffering ends. Which is the psychological pain and torment we put ourselves through when we think we "are" the "little me" only.

The person is awareness, in the sense that it's created out of awareness , but awareness itself is not the person, it's not any object nor the sum total of all objects. It is the substratum of all that is, therfore the person depends on awareness for its existence...even if it's not ultimately real.
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Re: The flooding back in of thoughts

Postby Sighclone » Sat Oct 15, 2016 6:44 am

Welcome Bol!

Before I comment on what has happened to you, let me briefly say what a pleasure it is to have been a moderator here for so long and find the very best members making the finest responses, rach and dij, in this thread, but also many others. ...just lovely...thank you.

And I totally agree with both comments. dijmart suggests that "the person" is not real. What she is suggesting is that there is an ultimate dimension of awareness so inclusive (with many names, from several traditions - ET uses Source and Being) that the conventional definitions of "what is real" fall short. Your body/mind/personality seem closely coupled and "real." And also consistent. You wake up in the morning and there you are...again. But after you shift (which you can) and begin to abide in a realized Self, your former "separate self" is real only in a relative sense....for example "you" are not your mother. And, of course the relative reality is noticed by the tax collector also. You are very real to him or her.

As to thoughts returning, that will happen until you stumble onto the "off" switch. That is the "off" switch available and useful in waking hours. Sidebar: you don't want the "off" switch flipped when you are driving a car, of course! Which brings me to another point...the absence of thoughts is not the absence of reflexes, however...or the absence of breathing...etc. Stillness, though is a primary portal...the space between thoughts...

The "default mode network" (Google that) is a set of brain regions which are normally active in most people 95% of the time. There are a lot of self-referential thoughts that are part of the operation of this network. But it is not the only network available - the "task positive network" is another. Keep meditating, the "stickiness," frequency, and density of those thoughts (outside of meditation) will decline over time. You might also get a glimpse of Unity, a hint of Being, a momentary merging. Well before I shifted, (but after 30 years of TM) I had an interesting experience that caused me to pull my car over. I was driving along a lovely river, and looked across at the bank on the opposite side, and suddenly I was merged with it -- I was not just stuck here in this skin bag...I was everywhere. And it felt rather peaceful. Of course, I was just peeking at Infinity, and quickly resumed my "role" as Andy driving a car. After about seven more years, though Andy has become "Andyness."

Something can appear and feel like it is real but not be true. Eckhart says the ego is a "false self." But is has a powerful and flexible mask. The experience of awakening is non-mental. The personal senses of "reality" and "truth" change...in a good way - lots of questions you have been asking and others you didn't bother to ask get answered and discarded at once.

Hang in there!

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: The flooding back in of thoughts

Postby dijmart » Sat Oct 15, 2016 7:30 am

Well, thank you Andy! :wink: Right back at ya!
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Re: The flooding back in of thoughts

Postby Bolgerisdashizz » Fri Oct 28, 2016 10:51 am

Sorry guys for the late reply. I went on holidays in sunny spain!

Thank you very much for these replies. They are much appreciated.

I have read your replies with interest and contemplated them, but i didnt really "understand" them. Im just starting off with this and I suppose my awareness is not that developed yet to comprehend on that level.

The one that i did understand quite clearly though was from rachMiel.It was very clear and simplefied for me just to understand.

The analogy you used about the train rushing by was a good one mate. Im at the point where I know Im still getting caught up in my thoughts and i know how nonsensical they are. I just dont have the ability to stop . Its hard to regain control and have some peace in every day situations.
Then theres the procrastination thing. I want to meditate and i'm always finding useless things to do. What a pain in the arse.
I suppose its just practice , practice and more of it.

One more thing. Have any of you got any more tips on building that resistance to mental noise?
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Re: The flooding back in of thoughts

Postby dijmart » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:11 pm

Sorry that you didn't understand my post. Unfortunately, one can only speak from and also learn from the place that we are currently at. No problem though, just keep at it and one day my post may make perfect sense.
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Re: The flooding back in of thoughts

Postby Sighclone » Mon Oct 31, 2016 8:03 pm

Bolger -

Meditation requires discipline, until it doesn't. Find a techniques that works - mantra techniques are ok. And yes, stay with it!!

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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