Questions about awakening

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)

Questions about awakening

Postby bobdylanfan » Sat Nov 26, 2016 9:34 am

Hey guys I wanted to share some insights and get your feedback please

I've seen that that the seeking energy has been very strong in me from the start, the need to understand awakening and also to make sure I'm doing it right. The last few days I've really witnessed it wanting me to double check a YouTube video or a text online that confirms letting everything be as it is is the correct way to awakening

Ive also seen that from listening to Tom das, adyashanti and Scott kiloby they say awakening can almost be a disappointment, that it's just noticing what's always been here. But when I stop everything and there's this emptiness and openness I straight away think what now? Maybe I have to rest as this , be this and the searching starts again.

I've had a handful of experiences where I feel totally connected timeless and free for
a few moments/minutes it feels beautiful and I realise that I have presumed that thAt was a taste of awakening but I think maybe they were peak experiences and it's maybe simpler than that ?

When I've noticed that seeking energy want me to keep searching I've let it be as it is and it's disappeared. I guess I'm asking how much does awakening have to do with understanding awakening ? And how much of it is making time for it to happen? There's a strong part of me that still thinks I have to invest time into experiencing that eureka moment when maybe I should just be getting on with life and let it happen. I go through such epps and flows of thinking I've got it to frustration and confusion

I've just had a quite strange experience since writing that last post. I investigated who is Lucian who am I really, what is my identity using the help of Scott kilobys unfindable inquiry and two things came up. My memeories of my life that feeling of being a child and also the affect I have on others. So when I sat with each one and let it be there without adding a story they both melted into space. So then I noticed this space which felt kind of empty and blank and then asked is this me ? I feel my logical brain go yes of course this is you because there's nothing else and this is always here. I also felt my body kind of relax into the space and it became alive. I realise that I am this space, it feels a little strange, like too normal. I feel a bit discombobulated
bobdylanfan
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:54 am

Re: Questions about awakening

Postby dijmart » Sat Nov 26, 2016 11:18 pm

listening to Tom das, adyashanti and Scott kiloby they say awakening can almost be a disappointment


Yeah, it's funny really, it's what you've always been, but never noticed, as ignorance is hard wired.


But when I stop everything and there's this emptiness and openness I straight away think what now? Maybe I have to rest as this , be this and the searching starts again.


Yes, place your attention on yourself, awareness. What now ? ...is to realize this is you and with that, you can't be the "apparent" person, the doer you think you are. You are just "associated" with this body/mind/sense complex. You experience it, it exists, but it isn't real.

I've had a handful of experiences where I feel totally connected timeless and free for
a few moments/minutes it feels beautiful and I realise that I have presumed that thAt was a taste of awakening but I think maybe they were peak experiences and it's maybe simpler than that ?


Yeah, epiphanies or samadhi's...they don't last and only matter if they bring insight into your inquiry, otherwise they're pretty useless. Self realization is the apprehension of awareness as your true nature and then that knowledge needs assimilated, over time usually, to recognize you, awareness can not be the doer you think you are and leads to liberation/freedom.

I guess I'm asking how much does awakening have to do with understanding awakening ?


Its got everything to do with it, as I said the mind must apprehend and recognize it's true nature is awareness, then all doubts have to be cleared by a qualified teacher, then Self knowledge needs to assimilate which takes however long it takes.


. I realise that I am this space, it feels a little strange, like too normal.


Yep, it is normal, it's you, the you which never changes no matter what thoughts, feelings, emotions, sensations appear. When you say, "I've changed" it is you, awareness recognizing the changes happening in/to you. Once you realize this as the truth, then seeking stops and assimilation begins.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 1973
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Questions about awakening

Postby dijmart » Sun Nov 27, 2016 3:23 am

Let me add that you (awareness) have no attributes. So, awareness is attributeless, impersonal, full, complete, nondual, ordinary awareness. So, neti-neti (not this, nor that) until youve negated everything and anything with quality and attributes...
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 1973
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Questions about awakening

Postby bobdylanfan » Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:45 pm

Thanks for your feedback buddy that seems to all make sense. I've since checked every time I mediatate to try find this identity of Lucian and I can't find it. In the present moment I see that there's just this openness and that's what I am. It's feel pretty ordinary and not like a scary ego death.

Once you be seen through that idea of who you are, what happens next ? Do I need to keep confirming everyday that I'm not this identity. How do you avoid getting to to associated with just this space and ignoring my identity or humanness. How do I embrace my true nature as this space which also includes my ego ?
bobdylanfan
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:54 am

Re: Questions about awakening

Postby dijmart » Tue Dec 06, 2016 9:34 pm

I see that there's just this openness and that's what I am. It's feel pretty ordinary and not like a scary ego death.


Right......you, awareness, have been here all along. You've just over looked yourself. You've identified "as" the person, instead of just being "associated" with the person.
So, how does this happen? It's the intellect which is part of the mind that has an ignorance problem (of its true nature) and has identified with being the person. Once you have Self knowledge the intellect understands the mis-understanding and that it is and always has been awareness. Remember, awareness is non-dual, there is nothing but awareness. Although pure awareness can not be defined by any limited object. Objects are composed out of awareness, but you, pure awareness are not them. Just as water is not defined by a wave. As you are ever shining and pervade every-thing, including the limited person you appear to be. It is pure awareness, shining onto and within the mind/body that makes the person appear to be a sentient, conscious being.

Once you be seen through that idea of who you are, what happens next ? Do I need to keep confirming everyday that I'm not this identity.


Yes, essentially, until the knowledge is hard and fast. The cost of freedom is constant vigilance as they say at shingworld.com. However, you don't walk around constantly saying "I'm awareness", but you check back in with yourself regularly, seeing from the perspective of awareness. It's sort of a shifting from the awareness channel vs the person channel, if that makes sense.

How do you avoid getting to to associated with just this space and ignoring my identity or humanness. How do I embrace my true nature as this space which also includes my ego ?


You need to identify with yourself, awareness, to be eventually free "from" the person. But, true freedom is from the person and for the person. For the person, because although pain and pleasure persist, suffering ends, when you know the person only apparently exists. It's like a projection upon a screen, the person is the projection, but you, awareness, are the unchanging screen.

You should probably start watching the youtube link in my signature. Start at Vedanta satsang number one and work your way through, there are 12, I think. All are 1 to 1 1/2 hours long. I watched them all, about a year ago, on a weekend as I couldnt get enough! Since, I've read James book and countless email satsangs on the website, in the signature. Vedanta is either for you or not...you should find out if it's for you. It will answer many, if not all, of your questions.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 1973
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Questions about awakening

Postby Sighclone » Wed Dec 07, 2016 7:22 am

try find this identity of Lucian and I can't find it


I support JS and the work he does also...great scholarship. And I agree with dijmart in this thread.

So what about Lucian? Well, the egoic personality of Lucian is still fully present, and, in fact, if you can sit with some stressful thoughts as they dissipate, then you probably have "awakened" to some of the finer dysfunctional subtleties of the egoic personality Lucian. "Lucain-ness" does not need to vanish, nor should it. What is changing for you is your identification as the very limited and conditioned "Lucian." Jac O'Keeffe's fine book "Born to be Free" goes on about release from the very limited misconception of who you are not and directs us to recognize who we really are. As do other writers. All good...and all pure awareness.

But what about Lucian? I'll bet you could sit down with a pencil and write five paragraphs about Lucian...his likes, dislikes, tendencies, beliefs, weak points and strong points, etc. That entity is a structured created, unique personality with which you are profoundly familiar. And, your behavior as "Lucian" has many autopilot features that kick in regularly. And "Lucian" is way different than "Andy" or "dijmart." Lucian is just a complex costume/character, complete with feelings and desires, etc. It need not vanish, leaving some kind of spaced-out robot. What happens, though, is you become immediately much more aware when one of the suboptimal behaviors fires up...what used to be "ok" now might cause some stress. So just let "the old Lucian" be. You have had enough exposure to Unity / Source that you will begin to align with it more and more. There is no hurry, really. But I'm guessing you will find that as the days and months go by, that some of the less-productive, non-life-supporting behaviors might begin to feel less appealing as you break free from the egoic shell.

One interesting test of this (but not absolutely conclusive) is the experience of synchronicity. That is coincidences. Do you experience more of them or do you notice more of them, or do you respond to different nudges from the universe? Watch for them. They are a kind of "third-party verification" of the growth of awareness...a kind of re-aligning with larger forces at work...

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6177
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Questions about awakening

Postby dijmart » Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:58 pm

BDF,

Great post btw, Andy. It made me rethink my, "you should look into Vedanta" statement to BDF. First of all, I don't want to be that pushy person telling others what to do. Second, if Vedanta is meant for you, you will find it. I firmly believe that.

My experience was that Vedanta filled in the missing pieces, that the neo-advaita authors couldnt provide, since there is no methodology in their teaching. There were so many questions and doubts, even though I was Self realized it didn't stick. I kept thinking something is missing here!!! Finally I went the Vedanta route and that was exactly what I needed.

Ok, sorry for getting side tracked, but just wanted to explain my earlier comment.
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 1973
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Questions about awakening

Postby Sighclone » Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:04 am

Modern restatements and translations of Vedanta are very important and provide a historical foundation in a great and clear tradition. Even the translations of Adi Shankara are sometimes distracting. But I've been content with widely reading many many "modern" (say back to 1900) writers, and reviewing some older texts. A chacun son gout. Certainly we can tell others what is meaningful for us, and certainly you can recommend to everyone that they read Swartz. Heck, I send people to about six of my favorites, all the time. In fact, dij, I will refer people to your threads, too.

There is something between the lines of clear nondual writers that rings out - I think that is the reason that Eckhart Tolle is so popular.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6177
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Questions about awakening

Postby dijmart » Thu Dec 08, 2016 5:53 pm

Certainly we can tell others what is meaningful for us, and certainly you can recommend to everyone that they read Swartz.


Yes, I just can't help myself..lol. However, I will acknowledge that I would not have been ready for Swartz back in 2009. There's no way. There was just too much baggage. So, I think some prepping of the mind had to happen, some exploring what was out there with other Guru's, for lack of a better word.


In fact, dij, I will refer people to your threads, too.


:D Nice!


There is something between the lines of clear nondual writers that rings out - I think that is the reason that Eckhart Tolle is so popular.


Hes great, don't get me wrong. I started with his books and youtube videos. He blew my mind repeatedly..lol..with what he was saying. Many times I was just speechless and couldn't even discuss what he was saying with anyone, but he only got me so far. I couldn't get out of the fire-fly stage (that's a James Swartz term). When you blink on (knowing youre awareness) and off (completely unconscious as the person/ego), until you spontaneously blink back on again, at some point.

So, I guess I was ripe enough when I found Vedanta last year and it just clicked... BOOM, that was the end of the fire-fly stage. However, although I now always know I'm awareness no matter what's happening (the knowledge is hard and fast, as the say) I'm still in the assimilation process. Assimilating Self knowledge to all areas of the Jiva/persons life. Its a long process and can take years. So, I'm not quick to say my work is done...I'm speaking of Moksha (liberation/freedom). I feel free, but can still get caught in the web occasionally, although its not long lasting, so dunno, I think there's still some more work.

Gees, there I go again rambling..... :)
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 1973
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Questions about awakening

Postby bobdylanfan » Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:51 pm

Thanks Andy and djsmart for your input. Thankyou Andy for saying just to let Lucian be, I can see after proving to myself on an experimental level that in the moment my idea of Lucian was just an idea, a memory and a thought. I instantly want to go i am now awareness, solely awareness and very quickly started to associate and identify with solely being this space and not really interacting with people and enjoying the juicy dialogue. I see how easy that can happen.

I have this idea that i still need to investigate and try and find myself every morning to keep myself from becoming re-associated with my ego. Is this a necessary step ? I think i have this fear of my ego reclaiming its grip, although i feel i cant unsee what ive seen.

I feel like i just need to carry on and get on with life, nothing feels that different. I now know for sure who i am on an absolute level but it doesnt feel as special or as epic as i thought it was going to. Sweetly simple i would say
bobdylanfan
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:54 am

Re: Questions about awakening

Postby bobdylanfan » Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:36 pm

Also I have another question I can understand and also really experience a sound as being me, I see there's no distance between the sound and what's aware of it which I'm realising is me. For some reason I'm finding it harder with what I'm seeing, I understand that there's no distance between what I'm seeing and what's aware of it but it doesn't feel the same some how. Maybe it's because a lot of what I can see I can touch and because I can touch it, it feels separate in some way. Hope this makes sense , do you have any insights ?
bobdylanfan
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:54 am

Re: Questions about awakening

Postby Sighclone » Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:19 pm

Great questions, Lucian. Do not fear the ego. The conceptual understanding you have of it, your experience of unity, and your faculty of recognizing egoic stuff when it arises will totally protect you forever from the illusion of "me, Lucian, captain of the universe, with pretty hair and sharp tongue, and clever wit...I totally exist and rule." The ego is true as a thought (the "I-thought"). But it is a false self. It is a limited collection of concepts and habits -- important for about the first 29 years of life (maybe more, maybe less). But spiritual growth and evolving awareness drive many people to question the truth of identity as ego. You, my friend are there, and past that point. Permanently. You have the capacity to see through and recognize the ego and all its subtleties. And you should expect egoic stuff to continue to arise for some time...just let it surface and invite it in...it will dissolve in the crucible of awareness...might come back, too...then, same treatment.

And yes, no big permanent ecstasy. There is quiet bliss, and comfort in stillness, and a much deeper sense of unity. And, Lucian...that is enough.

The discovery that "you" are "sound," is very normal...because it is true. You are nonlocal... at any given moment, you might be sound or a gorgeous view, or a tree...it is all you. For me, years ago, I was driving along the Columbia River Gorge, looking across the river at a wonderful, shining riverbank, and suddenly (without context or warning) I merged with that riverbank. I had become seamless with what I was witnessing. I was so unnerved that I had to pull my car over and just be with the experience. This was seven years before a big kensho, but about 26 years into Transcendental Meditation. Very normal, and very revealing of progress! Good stuff!!!!

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6177
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Questions about awakening

Postby dijmart » Sat Dec 10, 2016 6:41 am

I think i have this fear of my ego reclaiming its grip, although i feel i cant unsee what ive seen.


Reclaiming it's grip would happen if you're in what's called the fire fly stage, where you blink on and off (awareness vs ego). However, if you've truly apprehended your true identity as awareness, then you're cooked.

You can't, as you said "unsee what you've seen"! It doesn't seem to matter anymore what Dijmart says or does, naughty or nice....I know I'm awareness and that's that....
Take what you like and leave the rest.
User avatar
dijmart
 
Posts: 1973
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: Questions about awakening

Postby bobdylanfan » Thu Dec 15, 2016 11:49 am

Thankyou guys, I always appreciate your clarity, warmth and honesty Andy. Ive seen over the last week or so it feels a bit like I've been turned inside out. A lot of my aches and pains in my body have been amplified for some reason, I went to see this woman who does these very subtle touches on your body and helps realign your spine and body generally. With it came a release of a lot of repressed anger and anxiety. I know Scott kiloby and other teachers talk about a head awakening be the first half of the a full awakening and a body awakening needing to happen aswell what's your experience with this ? Here's a link http://kiloby.com/the-essence-of-embodiment/

For the last few years I've used resting as awareness as a practice to recognise awareness and I see that I can't do that anymore, before it seemed like a process - im here now however I'm feeling if I -rest as awareness I'll then get to - peaceful open fulfilment. Whereas now I realise I'm there already but that persistent voice that thinks I still need to do something is there and before I know I'm meditating again, watching a video, reading a text. Maybe this will slow down and lose its grip over time ? It's basically fear of not having a practice

I'm purposely trying to force myself to interact with my flat mates, friends and other people as I know how reclusive I can get. And the things that's fueling it all is the fear of not being accepted, of maybe my ego coming back with a vengeance and not wanting to feel the strong social anxiety that comes up. I realise I've been resting as awareness as a way to avoid or bypass that stuff for the last few years. I feel I just need to keep busy, get on with life and not get too sucked into chasing a more peaceful or loving state.

Thanks dudes
bobdylanfan
 
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:54 am

Re: Questions about awakening

Postby Sighclone » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:46 pm

I also visit an advanced Reiki practitioner who uses very subtle touches - my body tends to twitch during the sessions...which it does during periods of "inner body awareness" just lying in bed, also.

Pure Awareness is cellular. But it takes some time, perhaps a long time, for all the cells to "wake up." There is nothing wrong with reclusiveness, so long as it does not cause suffering for you or anyone else. If you do not have children, have steady income to meet your needs, and decide to sit in a corner when you are not working, that is just fine if there is no stress. It sounds, however, like you prefer to engage your friends and family and connect with them. The important truth is that you are experiencing a "shift" in awareness, and they probably are not. What I tended to do at your stage was to go ahead and "play the ego game," i.e. you know "what is expected of you;" just do as much of it as you can authentically do. They probably know you are on some sort of journey and may have certain feelings about your path. Just apologize and stay with what you know you need to do, which may mean not always joining in on time and energy wasting behavior.

Even if "resting as awareness" seems redundant, it's ok to "do it as a practice" even if you "know you are already there." Ramana used to chant, as did Nisargadatta. It's just fine. Swimmers swim to stay fit. The body and mind need to return to a point of purity with a practice periodically. The fMRIs from long-time meditators reinforce this comment.

Scott Kiloby is delightful - I have chatted with him several times at the Science and Nonduality Conference...he has a booth there. He is very bhakti-oriented, very devotional, and kind.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 6177
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Next

Return to Questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest