Sexual act, being present and thoughts

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danielw
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Joined: Fri May 05, 2017 7:46 am

Sexual act, being present and thoughts

Post by danielw » Fri May 05, 2017 8:10 am

Hello, I apologize in advance for my writing, I'm not an English native.

My doubt starts with Eckart phrase that said something like "The problems begun when we start thinking...", you know, the subject of ego, the now, believe that we are the ego, etc etc.

I'm not asking o relating the question about an "enlightened being", but about a being that is "making the transition" trying to be "in the present".

I believe most of this forum, and great part of earth.

My questions are:
1)What about the sexual act, if you are in the present, (trying to!), you are guided not by thought "oh the girl may got pregnant", but you will just be in the present.
You will have coitus, you will not ask "are you in the pill" (imagine there are not STD for the sake of the argument).
And with a high probability you will got a child.
Just like any animal, you will be in the present, having lot of kids.

Yes, tantra, this and that, however, in the transition, if you live the present, there is reproduction with high probability, if you are worrying about "not ejaculating", or "contraceptive" you are in the future, you are not in the present.
So, how is this subject manage by Eeckhart?

2)If this "ego" started thousands of years ago, (with the thoughts), and before as Eckhart told "we were connected with the present", why do we got disconnected, if we were already enlightened?


Thanks in advance.

painBody
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Re: Sexual act, being present and thoughts

Post by painBody » Sat May 06, 2017 2:01 am

Interesting post ! I'm no expert in either of the two subjects, but I'll take a stab at answering.

1 - When it comes to being present, that does not necessarily mean completely abandoning thought. A clear distinction is to be made between *voluntary thought* (consciously using the mind to overcome a challenge) and *involuntary thought* (getting lost in a stream of thoughts that you did not initiate consciously).

In other words, being present does not mean that you cannot *plan* for the so called future. You can go to the store and buy condoms or whatever. And, keep it close to your bed or wherever ... beforehand, so that, when the time comes, you're prepared :D And, when the time comes to have sex, hopefully, you will not get so lost in the (unconscious) desire to mate that you lose sight of the bigger picture (pregnancy, STDs, etc). And, if you're still somewhat conscious, you will take a few seconds to put on the rubber. There's nothing unconscious about that ! You are aware of the possibility of pregnancy, and want to prevent it so you use your mind to come up with a solution, and you take deliberate action.

On the contrary, if you get totally lost in your sexual desire, that is the *opposite* of being present. Being *present* does not mean doing whatever the ego wants in this moment (unprotected sex, in your example). It means having an awareness so that the ego cannot take you over. This is a subtle distinction, but it is easy to mistake the two - egoic/unconscious desire leading to doing whatever and not caring about the consequences VS present moment awareness of the egoic desire, and using the mind to assess whether acting on that desire is advisable. So, the scenario you mentioned, in fact, is an example of being unconscious, not of being present.

2 - That's a good question. They say that "We don't know what he have until we lose it." I think this holds true when it comes to the original state of consciousness we had ages ago. Presence was so prevalent that we didn't know we had it ... the opposite polarity of unconsciousness did not exist, so we were not able to discern presence and compare it to its opposite. If we had been able to do that, we would have seen how precious our state of consciousness was, and we would not have allowed it to be lost, or at least not totally ! In other words, we were not "self-aware". Consciousness was not aware of itself. Then, subjected to evolutionary forces, we began to "lose" that state, i.e. it became obscured by the noise of the more advanced mind. Finally, we got to a point where we began to see the insanity of the current state of humanity (e.g. Buddha, 2600 yrs ago). It is now easy for us to see that we have "lost" that original state of sanity by seeing the insanity all around us. So, in a way, it was necessary for us to lose our sanity to see what we had in the first place ! I think that's why Eckhart often says that becoming insane was part of the evolutionary process ... a temporary setback (insanity) in the interest of long-term progress (sanity).

I also think that the state of being enlightened does not necessarily mean that one is no longer susceptible to the danger of that state being obscured by ego/conditioning. In other words, because we're human beings with noise machines in the head, no matter how "enlightened" we think we are, we are always, in a way, susceptible to being taken over by ego. And, we have to constantly stay present in order to prevent that from happening. We have to "watch out" for the ego taking control of us, by staying present. Though I hate to use the word, we are sort of under constant "threat" from the ego.

Hope this makes sense.

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