Honesty and lies ?

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Honesty and lies ?

Postby painBody » Sun May 21, 2017 5:45 am

I've never heard Eckhart address this topic. What do you think about honesty and lies ?

For the most part, I've always been an honest person ... probably one big reason I saw very little success in the world of doing. In fact, to this day, approaching my mid 30s, I'm horrible at telling even the smallest of lies (with one exception ... see below). I just don't find the motivation to lie, even when "big things" are at stake. All this time upholding my honesty, I've lost girlfriends, jobs, and everything in between ... things that constitute my "life situation". Yet, I know that I'd do it all over again. I don't have any trouble telling it like I see it. I don't consider myself virtuous or noble because of this; I just don't see the lure or lucre of lie-telling for gain, big or small.

There is, however, one (and only one) lie I got into the habit of telling (and telling well), a long time ago, when I moved out of my parents' home and became independent.

"How are you, son ? Are you enjoying your life ?"
"I'm fine, Dad/Mom. I'm having a great time here. Don't worry about anything."

Telling this particular lie doesn't bother me at all ! I even feel a bit of satisfaction/pride telling it (though that is not the goal, it is simply a by-product), because I don't want my folks to worry needlessly. After all, if life in the world of form is illusory and dream-like anyway, what's the harm in distorting that fantasy, especially if it is done with good intentions ?

What do you think ?
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Re: Honesty and lies ?

Postby dijmart » Sun May 21, 2017 6:44 am

I am a parent of a 24 yo son, so I will give my take on your lie. I would not want my son to lie to me about how he is doing, for any reason, what so ever. I know your background and can understand why you did it, but you haven't given your parents the opportunity to try to help you, even if it's emotionally from a distance. That's not a judgment, just what I would want from my son. My son still lives with me though, so I can still keep an eye on him. He just went through a bad break-up, so although I give him space...mama is always looking out for her cub, making sure he's okay. Yeah, its cheesy, but I don't care! Lol

Is it illusion/ mithya....yep! But, Isvara (god) set me (the apparent person) up this way, so I roll with it. You could also say that you were set up the way you are, telling your parents what they wanted to hear. So, is it wrong? No. Nothing is inherently wrong.
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Re: Honesty and lies ?

Postby steve Davidson » Sun May 21, 2017 9:21 pm

Hi painBody, you did not answer or tell us what the lie really is. You said to your parents that all is fine when they asked the question "How are you, son ? Are you enjoying your life ?" But what is the truth about the matter, please share if so moved and then maybe there will be better understanding if you are lying or telling the truth or a little of each.
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Re: Honesty and lies ?

Postby painBody » Sun May 21, 2017 10:52 pm

dijmart wrote:I am a parent of a 24 yo son, so I will give my take on your lie. I would not want my son to lie to me about how he is doing, for any reason, what so ever. I know your background and can understand why you did it, but you haven't given your parents the opportunity to try to help you, even if it's emotionally from a distance. That's not a judgment, just what I would want from my son. My son still lives with me though, so I can still keep an eye on him. He just went through a bad break-up, so although I give him space...mama is always looking out for her cub, making sure he's okay. Yeah, its cheesy, but I don't care! Lol

Is it illusion/ mithya....yep! But, Isvara (god) set me (the apparent person) up this way, so I roll with it. You could also say that you were set up the way you are, telling your parents what they wanted to hear. So, is it wrong? No. Nothing is inherently wrong.


Thanks, dijmart :) I appreciate your candor.

I think I refused my parents the opportunity to help me emotionally because I was confident others would ... friends, lovers. But, time and time again, I was proven wrong. Among the 7 billion, I couldn't find one person up for it. I pushed away the only people who love me unconditionally.

That said, it is most definitely for the best that my folks don't know some facts from my history ... the attempt to end my misery once and for all, for instance.

Nice to hear from you ! :)
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Re: Honesty and lies ?

Postby painBody » Sun May 21, 2017 10:58 pm

steve Davidson wrote:Hi painBody, you did not answer or tell us what the lie really is. You said to your parents that all is fine when they asked the question "How are you, son ? Are you enjoying your life ?" But what is the truth about the matter, please share if so moved and then maybe there will be better understanding if you are lying or telling the truth or a little of each.


Thanks for replying, steve.

The truth is that, for most of my existence, I've been quite miserable (on the suicidal edge, and beyond), and I've been telling my parents the opposite of that. That I'm fine is an absolute lie ... no truth in it, whatsoever.
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Re: Honesty and lies ?

Postby dijmart » Sun May 21, 2017 11:22 pm

Hi PB,

I pushed away the only people who love me unconditionally.


What about now? Do you tell them the truth now? I don't mean about your past, but about what ups/downs you deal with now? I think you should.
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Re: Honesty and lies ?

Postby painBody » Sun May 21, 2017 11:49 pm

dijmart wrote:Hi PB,

What about now? Do you tell them the truth now? I don't mean about your past, but about what ups/downs you deal with now? I think you should.


They kind of know what's going on, but not all the gory details. I think it's best that it stays that way. Thanks :)
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Re: Honesty and lies ?

Postby steve Davidson » Mon May 22, 2017 12:14 am

Thanks for your honesty painBody. I am saddened to hear that you are quite miserable, etc. But I can understand why you would not want to worry your parents over this and would lie, and say everything is good. I can relate, I really can. When people ask me how I am doing, I usually answer that I am good, but that might not be true. Most people do not really want to know what is going on with you or how you truly feel. Many times I am down and sad and suffering psychologically, but I keep it to myself. We live in a society where truthful sharing is not encouraged nor accepted as the norm. Most of us do live in fantasy or illusion. I do hope you can find someone you feel comfortable talking to and can feel some unconditional love and acceptance. I just read that even having a pet can help one, make us happier and feel loved.

I liked what dijmart said to you in the second post, about letting your parents have the opportunity to be there for you and love you and help you. You may keep some things to yourself and not share everything, all the gory details, as you say, but you may re-consider and reach out to those who can help you, your loving parents. Parents only want the best for their children, and you only want the best for them, not worrying them. So obviously there is love here, and caring for each other. And sometimes we cannot do everything on our own, we need help.

I do not know if your misery is emotional, psychological, or if it is based on something physical, a physical condition that might need help or addressed. I am touched by your honesty in your post and sharing your pain here. I know you might not want to share too much publicly, but if there is more you want to say, whether publicly or privately, I am interested and wish for you the very best. I hope you find the peace you are seeking, whether through Tolle's teachings and or through other paths.
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Re: Honesty and lies ?

Postby steve Davidson » Mon May 22, 2017 12:30 am

I also want to share with you that you may be interested in reading about Near Death Experiences, especially in regards to suicide. I have done quite a bit of reading on this subject and the consensus is that suicide does not solve any of our problems and is not something one would ever consider again, after returning from a NDE. Those who have tried to end their life, their pain, come back here with a new appreciation to life and know the preciousness of each new day and even though some of their problems are still here, did not go away, they are so happy to have a second chance at living. Opportunities here for growth is not found in the afterlife, this planet earth is the most precious place we can be (assuming you believe there is a life after death or another existence.)

If you are interested, please check this link out: http://the-formula.org/near-death-experiences-suicide/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59OOCGz ... e=youtu.be
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Re: Honesty and lies ?

Postby rachMiel » Mon May 22, 2017 3:19 am

painBody, what's the source of your pain? What's amiss?
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...
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Re: Honesty and lies ?

Postby painBody » Mon May 22, 2017 4:36 am

You guys are the kindest. Thank you, ... really ... but I think I sent the wrong message here. I'm not looking for help and I didn't intend for this to become a personal therapy thread. So, I apologize if it seemed like that was my intention. I gave the example of lying to my parents to illustrate what I'm willing to lie about and to put the subject of honesty/lying in perspective. I wanted to find out what you guys think about the subject of honesty/lying, in general.

My misery was in an earlier incarnation :) I'm doing quite ok at the moment, not on the level of form, but beyond it. And, Eckhart is wholly to thank for that.

steve - Thank you so much for your kind and empathetic words. I'm touched. Yes, this society emphasizes appearances and facades over the truth.

I believe I have it figured out (the relationship) with my parents, although I appreciate your advice. I will check out those links you shared, though I'm quite skeptical of people claiming NDE's or similar experiences.

rachMiel - Thanks for your concern. Really. I could write a book about what was amiss (though no longer) ... mostly just that I was chasing an illusion ... the same illusion that a lot of us here were chasing before we realized that it was an illusion.
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Re: Honesty and lies ?

Postby steve Davidson » Mon May 22, 2017 5:58 am

painBody, great post I have to say and glad to hear it was in the past. Sorry if I turned it into a therapy thread. I understand what you are getting at now, better, which is the issue of honesty/lying.

I think most spiritual traditions would suggest we try to be honest, truthful, even in small matters. However, a lot of this falls under the category of context. Without context, it is hard to say what is

better, honesty or lying. We all deal with this issue on a daily basis. Someone you know asks you how they look today or if you liked the meal, for instance. Technically, it is lying to tell them they

look good or the meal was good when you feel it was not. However, what is the best and most sincere thing to do, that would be the context you would have to ask yourself. Do you want to hurt them,

is it really worth saying the truth in the matter or is it better in this context to lie a little (so called lying, but in the end not hurting them).

From reading Tolle, even though you said he did not answer this question as far as you know, I would imagine his answer would be to be aware and watch yourself in the now when you are presented

with this, and you will be clearly led to the right action, whether it is honesty or so called lying. Awareness in the moment will give you the right response.
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Re: Honesty and lies ?

Postby steve Davidson » Fri Jun 02, 2017 5:57 pm

painBody, was your original question ever answered satisfactorily? Have you seen clearer into honesty and lies now? I think it is a great topic and we barely scratched the surface, if you still want to explore more about it. It does come up for me a lot, if what i am doing at times is honest or a lie, in some sense.
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Re: Honesty and lies ?

Postby Onceler » Sat Jun 03, 2017 2:37 am

You know, so much of what we do is a lie. We lie to others and we even lie to ourselves. If we believe that this life is who we are and we project this life to the world as ourselves, it's all one big lie.

In this context I hardly think lying to your parents matters much, unless it hurts them. You have good intentions, saving them from distesss.

I wold say that the only solution is to figure out who you truly are so that, "I'm fine" is congruent with who you are and you aren't lying.
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Re: Honesty and lies ?

Postby dijmart » Sat Jun 03, 2017 3:01 am

If we believe that this life is who we are and we project this life to the world as ourselves, it's all one big lie.


Lol, so true! ...well, actually, if you "believe" you are the "apparent" person you appear to be, then technically you're not lying. However, once you know you're not! Then, you're lying, well, basically your playing your character, in the grand movie. They say, don't disturb the mind's of the ignorant (ignorant of their true nature that is...not stupid).
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