Feeling dissociated, help wanted

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mathieuv
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Feeling dissociated, help wanted

Post by mathieuv » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:39 am

Hello everyone

Ive had a really difficult year with panic disorder, ocd,anxiety and depression like symptoms.

In the process of my recovery I read Eckhart's books which were insightful, but perhaps not really helpful.

- Since I know I am not my voice in the head, but the awareness that sees this. my thoughts aren't personal anymore.
I'm obsessing about this:
Is this my voice or not? My sense of I'ness is threatened because of this.
Being in spectator mode all the time makes me feel detached to my thoughts and body.

I also feel weird in the world.
It doesn't feel real anymore. It's like I am living a dream.
I have it hard to connect too others too.
I can see "through them" and cant really connect on a human (ego) level/lower consciousness level since I know it is not real.

It makes me feel weird and question everything.

What is it that I am experiencing? ??

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Webwanderer
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Re: Feeling dissociated, help wanted

Post by Webwanderer » Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:52 pm

It may be useful to consider what 'real' actually means. Yes, one might say the world as we see it is not real in the context of the greater realm of conscious being. In that context it may be difficult to relate to the illusion as it is not permanent. The expansion of consciousness tends to expose this in ways that can be difficult to manage.

There is however, another context that makes the human experience quite valuable and one that invites more active participation. Consider that an underlying component of reality is its permanence. So what is permanent in this world that we may focus our attention on in order to get the most out of it? What do we get to take with us when this physical life is complete? How about our experience? Do the lessons of life not last well beyond the conditions that gave them rise? Are lessons not based upon the experiences we have?

Withdrawing from the relationships with the conditions of our life is itself a type of experience, but so too is the purposeful engagement with those conditions in anyway that interests us. Rather than withdraw because you see it as a dream, engage life's conditions for the unique experiences that the dream offers. Direct experience affects the evolution of our consciousness in ways just imagining cannot. You are, after all, here in this human experience. That you are awakening to its nature puts you in an excellent position to make large gains in consciousness.

Dive into life with a sense of exploration, adventure and opportunity. Knowing that the conditions are not permanent beyond this life opens up endless possibilities for the consciousness expanding experiences that last for eternity. Have some fun.

WW

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rachMiel
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Re: Feeling dissociated, help wanted

Post by rachMiel » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:17 pm

mathieuv wrote:What is it that I am experiencing? ??
It sounds to me like you're experiencing the unraveling of the ego-self. This is pretty much the main goal of Tolle's presence work. So it means you're doing something right. :-)

The snag in your case I think is that the instability of your current psychological state -- weaving in and out of panic disorder, ocd, anxiety, and depression -- does not mix well with the rug-out-from-under-your-feet jolt of ego-self unraveling. It's like mixing tranquilizers and alcohol: for some it might be fine, for others it might cause an extreme negative reaction.

My advice (i.e. to be taken with a dollop of salt!) is to stabilize your emotional/psychological state first, then when you feel less vulnerable, dive back into the presence work. But if you're determined to work on both at the same time, be gentle with yourself. Actually, no matter what course you take, be gentle with yourself. It's always a good starting point for healing.

rachMiel
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

mathieuv
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Re: Feeling dissociated, help wanted

Post by mathieuv » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:49 pm

It feels like I am experiencing a "No-identity" crisis.
But who is the I referring too? My ego self? Right?

Probably I am overthinking this. But.

It seems to me that I need my form-identity in order to participate in this world? I don't want to become strange, suddenly.
I am living this human experience, there must me a reason for it.

This is probably what you meant with the 2nd alinea Webwanderer?

@Rachmiel

I agree that I should stabilize my psychological state and perhaps wait with presence work . But the message from ET seems irreversible so I can't neglect it.
My world view and perspective has changed.

A part of my anxiety is probably fuelled by my "no-identity" crisis / loss of ego.

There is a part of me (lower self) that doesn't think it's a good idea to transcend all ego.

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rachMiel
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Re: Feeling dissociated, help wanted

Post by rachMiel » Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:18 pm

mathieuv wrote:I agree that I should stabilize my psychological state and perhaps wait with presence work . But the message from ET seems irreversible so I can't neglect it.
Then fold it gently in to your default (pre-Tolle) view. Which is easier said than done, right? :-)
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

mathieuv
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Re: Feeling dissociated, help wanted

Post by mathieuv » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:26 pm

That seems imposibble. There is no way back! ☺
Isn't there a Zen saying that says;

Trees are trees before you study zen
Trees aren't trees anymore when starting zen
Trees become trees again

Probably I am in the middle phase.

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rachMiel
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Re: Feeling dissociated, help wanted

Post by rachMiel » Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:35 pm

We're all in the middle phase.

There might be no going back ... but in going forward you can charge or saunter. I'd recommend sauntering. :-)
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily ...

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Re: Feeling dissociated, help wanted

Post by Webwanderer » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:51 am

mathieuv wrote:It feels like I am experiencing a "No-identity" crisis.
But who is the I referring too? My ego self? Right?
The 'I' refers to your sense of self. The ego is all the added identifiers that are adopted along with a simple clear sense of being. It works like this: "I" is the sensing of self. "Am" is an acknowledgment of being. Whatever comes next is generally a context of ego. For example I am... a man, woman, school teacher, truck driver, computer tech, etc. Whatever noun follows next contributes to the context of ego. Then there are the adjectives. I am... tall, old, Canadian, fat, skinny, etc. All of these contribute in their own way to a context of living the human experience. All contribute the an egoic perspective while in this life.

None of this is a bad thing. It's just how the system works. It makes for unique experiences that contribute to the evolution of our, and the Greater, consciousness. It's an opportunity to explore all manner of life experiences through the physicality of these bodies and this world.

Waking up to a clearer sense of self can be quite challenging. It's rare that anyone close to us has a clue what we are going through. Certainly early on. It seems however, to be an important step in our growth as beings.

WW

mathieuv
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Re: Feeling dissociated, help wanted

Post by mathieuv » Wed Oct 25, 2017 10:14 am

Thanks Webwanderer.

It feels that my sense or self refers to who I am beyond form / emotions / me as consciousness now.
Is that waking up to my essence identity?

But I think I can't view my form identity as "wrong" or " bad". I need it in order to live the human experience.
When I speak about myself for an example.

form identity = sense of self derived from the human mind (form) (Knowing about yourself)
essence identity = sense of self beyond form (knowing yourself)

It'll be challenging in balancing both.

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Re: Feeling dissociated, help wanted

Post by Webwanderer » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:01 pm

mathieuv wrote:It feels that my sense or self refers to who I am beyond form / emotions / me as consciousness now.
Is that waking up to my essence identity?
It is certainly a step in that direction. The ego mind is often strong however, and tends to pull us back to its well practiced context. That's okay. We need a certain amount of human identification to function well in this world. Knowing the difference is what matters. The ability to feel that clear sense of self is the alignment that helps us through the challenges of this human exploration.

I find it quite helpful to rest in clear awareness without any identifiers many times during my day. That helps in its availability when challenges arise. Over time it becomes more of a natural response.

WW

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