This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
Posts: 21
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 10:33 am
Location: australia

Post by Nasir » Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:50 am

innermusiq my friend,
if it helps i would like to share my experience with you. I've been suffering depression for years and itz like my brain has been dead. I couldn't think and just felt suicidal absolute dread and my head was so noisy but still i couldnt think and my body weighed so heavy like the whole world was caving in on me. just now this last month i have been free from this depression and feeling glimpses of joy and my body feels so light and im actually likeing my body and feeling confident and excited about life. Now the state your in i understand no one, when i was in this depression could say anything to excite me or put me in focus or give me hope that life could turn around like im experienceing now. But what ive come to realize in this last month is that depression is a shadow, itz a black shadow that will make you hate everything, hate life, hate your body, man it makes you live in another reality. It makes everything look different, my problem was my body i couldnt stand been in my body this black shadow changed my perception of everything. And that delusion was my truth at that time well i believed that to be the truth. And like you said with yourself i couldnt drink either, it just gave me a migraine and i got sick it was like my whole body was weak from this shadow. The only relief i found was from harder drugs. Now im going to tell you what i did to dissolve that black shadow. I went on a farm rehab and just ate organic vegetables. No junk and everything was organic. dat i believe was the start of my healing process, being on a farm, peace and quiet, been able to feel vulnerable, cry without people judging you, eating healthy and doing exercise. But i was still very uncomfortable with my self and constintly thinking something was wrong with me. I started doing ashtanga yoga and that gave me more vitality and put my body back to allignment somewhat and with the proper breathing made me feel more present and stronger and let go of a lot of tension and heaviness i had been feeling for years. Then i went out for a drink and for the first time in years i drank and i felt happy and light and i had a good nite. then since that nite my whole thought patterns have changed. and i felt my body and when old thought patterns arrived i was aware of the vital energy they were draining from me. In the past i was trying to dissolve thoughts singularly within the same thought pattern, as to say i was constantly in that one thought pattern. And wasnt even aware.And the heaviness they were putting on my body. So for the first time i was aware and when i became aware my focus switched from my thought patterns to the feeling of my body. I was able to make my body feel light by just changeing my focus what would help me do this was to take a breath. That's where yoga helped too to feel the breath in my body and after a few days like that my thought were extremely positive. Then i could keep feeling this dark shadow come back i could feel it in my gut, in my chest but i accepted it and didnt buy into it and let the discomfort stay in me but not fall into it as to say. Knowing it's an illusiion gave me strenght to stay aware and this ashtanga yoga helps me heaps too. now im at the stage where i know what my heart is. Im feeling without judgement and the black shadow is transmuting and has already transmuted a lot. The heaviness is gone from my body but it still comes back but now i know what is real i am able to switch focus into the now and i dont fall like i use to. And mann i feel like crying now writind this to you coz i feel your pain i've been your pain for years and years. It's a delusion and dont try to hard let everything be and the truth shall be revealed to you and it's the most beutiful thing i can't explain. Maybe my language isnt too good in explaining but dont be attached to my words and also i want to say you said u did yoga but i wonder if u were attached to it when u were doing it and were expecting something from it i did that when i first started and it did nothing for me until i lost that attachment and didnt expect anything or strive for anything. Brother life is beutiful and it is a beutiful struggle. This struggle now is what you need make it your friend, make this battle your friend, make this black shadow your friend make whatever is now your friend and youll be suprised what miracles will happen. make that sickness in your gut your friend, that burning in your chest your friend, that choking in your throat your friend you get the jist i promise you miracles happen.

Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:07 pm

Post by Jadecham » Tue Dec 26, 2006 6:06 pm

I'm very new to this forum and I know that I'm in no way qualified to give any advice to anyone, so I won't. However, I read your post and immediately related to it to such a degree that it brought tears to my eyes. I too have struggled with depression for many years. I know the feeling of existential angst all too well; It's not just that everything seems pointless and meaningless but that some very deep part of yourself has seen the truth - that everything is in fact pointless and meaningless and anyone who tries to tell you otherwise is simply deluding themselves. I struggled with this for years and even the thought of committing suicide seemed as pointless as everything else, so why bother? I mustn't have been very much fun to be around :?
It all changed for me in one blindingly clear flash of insight. I don't know if this will work for you but it changed my life overnight so I felt compelled to share it with you. I simply stopped fighting it. For all those years I had somehow felt that there was something "wrong" with me; that I was broken in some way because I was depressed and that, if I could just find the right book or the right teacher or the right way of looking at things, then I could climb out of this dark pit I was in and start living a "normal" life. But nothing worked! The more I struggled and pushed and pulled against it, the more depressed I became.
I don't know how it happened exactly but one day I just got sick and tired of trying to find the "answer". I got truly and deeply sick and tired of trying to find a "way out" and just made a choice to accept it. When I finally got to the place where I could say "Darn it all, I just don't care if I spend the rest of my life depressed and there's nothing I can do about it anyway so I'm just not going to struggle with it anymore and let it be", the most astounding and unexpected thing happened - the black cloud that had been hanging around over my head all those years simply evaporated. These days I can no longer remember what it was that made me feel that way in the first place. It's become a complete non-issue!
I hope this doesn't sound too silly and that my experiance is of some use to you. I'd love to hear your thoughts on it.

Posts: 453
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 10:13 am
Location: Denmark

Post by Blenderhead » Tue Dec 26, 2006 7:01 pm

If you want to become straight, allow yourself to be crooked :)

Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:41 am
Location: Australia


Post by innermusiq » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:38 am

Nasir, Thanks , but as i sais i have tried yoga for years I was a fanatic. i was also into health food ( organic ) Vitimin supplements hugew amounts, fasting 1 or 2 days per month on fruit juice which became Distilled water only 1 or 2 days per month did it for years until I looked anorexic but I wasn't. It was all bunk.

I read a book a few yeras ago titled Your body's many cries for water, the author rekoned all illness was due to a lack of water ( pure water ) not juice or tea s etc. on a cellular level. So I downed 1.5 _ 2 litres of fresh water everyday. My system couldn't get rid of the excess water and I began wheezing, my lungs began to fill with water and i nearly drowned from driking excess water.
As i said i have tried everthing i know of. I'm still depressed but meds made it chronic.
Each time I tried a new medication I got some relief that only ever lasted 2 or 3 days and I went slowly back down but worse than before. So I was left each time with a memory of is this what life must like without depression. Its left me chronic now.

Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:41 am
Location: Australia


Post by innermusiq » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:03 am

Sorry folks but i have to type a few separate posts as a long one is not loading properly I'm getting a page expired msg, when i click submit and loosing the reply.

Thanks Jadecham for sharing your experience.
I spent from before my teenage years 'till age 46 fighting in everyway possible to handle this. The last resort for me was medication which was nearly 7 years ago. I did everthing doctors told me to do from cognitve therapy keeping a diary and charting my feelings for every hour of the day medication and combinations of until I was hospitalised from toxin build up. So I gave up all the meds and face it raw for nearly 2 years.

That was when i did as you have suggested. I reigsned myself (and there is no me before I'm told again) to a life time of this. I quit work suddenly I had fought to stay working until i had nothing left to continue with mentally or even physically. It won and I allowed it and accepted it for what it is. I had to resit it to work and now I dont have to.
Anything that life or depression took away from I accecpted it and the rest I let go, friends social, life all previous interest is all gone, there is nothing left of my life that i have left to identify with.
After reading ET. I let the rest of my (liitle me ) die go gone.
The only thing that remains is the heavyness and burden or chore that existing is.

It seems to me that i have no interest in tempory form, false life , fake people as all i see is ego and I can't intereact with the world of form anymore its too painfull.There is a longing to be free of it and its the only explanation I can see. I'm sorry if this is very down for people but hey there is no me. Its the way it is and I live with it 24/7 can't shake it off trying or allowing. Its a longing to be no more of this form. Hope it makes sense. A doctor would say its depression talking but I have experienced what I am beyond form and now I can handle form even less.

Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:41 am
Location: Australia


Post by innermusiq » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:20 am

I have disidentified with thought and everything that meant anything in life to me to such an extent on two occassions that awareness expanded to INFINITY in all directions. It was impersonal awareness of an EMPTY VOID of intense silence and stillness nothing else. It lasted 1.5 - 2 hours of clock time but during it there was no time ETERNITY. That is what i experienced beyond.

I didn.t feel love ( total accecptance of it, maybe thats love ) or bliss, or joy to me they are all in the mind. There was no intense light but it wasn't dark either.
It was pure being without any form as They say NO-THING.

I not sure if this is possible to maintain and be in the form also.
I had no feeling of a body or mind so I guess not. If you were like me would you long for this instead if being form.

The only thing I believe is real is awareness and now but it does not help depression as its all Iam aware of while in the world of form its the burden of it.

Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:41 am
Location: Australia


Post by innermusiq » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:40 am

Another experience I have when thought stops while looking at form without labels. Not meant as a brag of look at what I can see but for those who say its all from thought. This is no thought present, feeling in a form yes.

Iwas sitting in my garden lookin without labeling when i noticed PIXELS like in tv or photography when I looked I couldn't see them but gazing I could see them again. There was wave after wave of pixels that expanded and burst like fireworks of life. When a bird flew accross the sky I realised it wasn't a bird it was these pixels of life opening in succession giving the illusion of a bird flying accross the sky. These pixels of exploding life are giving rise to form, you and me and everything we see. Now I see them all the time if I gaze, but I could still feel this depression as this happened. Do you still say its purely thought or do I even have a choice in what i feel. Maybe I'm loosing my marbels maybe its ALL in my mind. I think depression is when the illusion of whatever it is /was is seen thru and the longing is to be what is real without form, I don't understand what to make of it. Make of it what you will but these are in the now experiernces without thoght but interacting with form is my burden, my cross I don't know anymore.

Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:41 am
Location: Australia


Post by innermusiq » Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:53 am

Okay, this is the last installment hope I haven't gone on too much and you know I'm mad by now (lol) anyway. So a final word.

With a REAL illness the "person" fades away and dies to the world.
But with depression the world dies and interest in it fades away and dies leaving the 'person" empty, ( no content ET. ) nothing is /was real, all only temporary form but the "person " is still here aware of the burden of form of suffering, even though its accecpted there is a longing for ???? and its felt imo as depression not joy or bliss thats in the mind. me thinks.
" I'm a firm believer in Fletcherism " Homer J. Simpson.

Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:07 pm

Post by Jadecham » Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:35 pm

I think I know what you mean though I'm not sure.

I would hardly call myself "enlightened" - In fact, I don't believe there is any such thing as "enlightenment" per say.
But I do think we can come closer to the truth of our existance.
Even that doesn't really nail it.
It's more like your inner eyes open up and you see more and more of how things really are. If that's "enlightenment" then I agree with you that the experiance is not what I thought it would be either.

There's no feeling of bliss or nirvana or having arrived in any way. It's actually quite a mundane and alienating experiance.

If you were trying to teach someone a new skill, like swimming say, or to play guitar, and they were thrashing about in frustration and anger and getting very upset with the whole process, I think the very first thing you would say to them is "STOP"!

Just stop struggeling and getting deeper and deeper into the maddening mess of it and put it down for a second.
Let it go and relax.
Let's look at this from a place of non-doing and just observe what it is and how it works.

I feel very strongly about this because I've seen it over and over in my life. It's a large part of what Eckhart calls "being in the now" and being aware.
Many spiritual teachers talk of that inner stillness, the place of being quiet and at rest.
It makes so much sense when you think of it.
There are so many sayings by people much more intelligent than me that point in the same direction. One of my favorites is "You can't think your way out of problems that you've thought yourself into" (Einstien I believe).

A few years back I built myself a chopper from the ground up. I'm no mechanic and there were many a time when I found that I was struggeling with some aspect of putting it together and everything I did just seemed to make things worse.
I'd get so angry and frustrated that I'd start throwing tools around the garage and breaking things (That's the kind of knucklehead I am).
Caught up in the moment, I couldn't see that the answer was to just put my tools down and walk away from the bike untill I could see what was really going on. Life (to me) is exactly the same.

Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:41 am
Location: Australia


Post by innermusiq » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:04 am

Hi Jadecham, that post of yours is the best piece of down to earh advice i have read here. My search for a little happiness became a search for bliss and joy. I rekon you saw what has blinded me, the simplicty that is Npw.

Joel also said something that resonated here, the dark toxic cloud of negative energy that hangs over me and lingers on and on.

So both of you are quiet correct.

Its time for me to down tools and walk away and let the NOW BE.

Thanks again everyone for reading all my ramblings ( I'm not really mad, maybe a little, but extremely desperate, yes ) and for responding.

Downing my tools and letting the toxic cloud dissolve, cya

User avatar
Posts: 6826
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:23 am


Do you understand that Pure Being cannot be depressed, that Awareness cannot be depressed? Depression is a form of experience within Indescribable Being. So too is every other thought-feeling one can have. All experience is an appearance within Awareness.
I have disidentified with thought and everything that meant anything in life to me to such an extent on two occassions that awareness expanded to INFINITY in all directions. It was impersonal awareness of an EMPTY VOID of intense silence and stillness nothing else. It lasted 1.5 - 2 hours of clock time but during it there was no time ETERNITY. That is what i experienced beyond.
You have repeated in your posts that you have had these cosmic consciousness experiences. Are those experiences not also within awareness? Do they still exist? Or are they present memories of past events. Being does not have preference for one experience over another. Remember Krishnamurti’s secret, that he does not mind what happens.

See clearly what depression is at its fundamental roots. It is no different, fundamentally, than any other experiential concept. The word depression is a label which refers to a concept. So too is happiness, anger, frustration, etc. All define an experience of form.

No experience can affect the Essential Seeing that is the Natural State. Awareness can no more be depressed than a movie screen can cry over a sad movie.

The only “thing” that can be depressed is a temporary idea of a separate self that one may assume as an identity. So, if “you” are depressed, the “I” that is claimed, is an assumed identity. It is formed out of a lifetime of thought about relationships within the world of form. Much of the active assumptions held about life are hidden deep in the subconscious. Stilling the mind does not, in and of itself, free one from those assumptions hidden within the ego.

There must be understanding that the Natural State is free of hidden assumptions. If one is feeling chronically depressed it is certain that identifying assumptions are active. One can spend decades rooting through the subconscious in an attempt to clean it up and still have more to do. (Or so it appears) Or one can take the more direct approach of recognizing, through use of the pointers expressed by one living in that Natural State, the Indefinable Truth of Being. Clear seeing, unencumbered by mind states.

Live Free

Posts: 830
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 7:27 pm
Location: New York

Post by eseward » Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:24 pm

The only “thing” that can be depressed is a temporary idea of a separate self that one may assume as an identity... Stilling the mind does not, in and of itself, free one from those assumptions hidden within the ego.

There must be understanding that the Natural State is free of hidden assumptions. If one is feeling chronically depressed it is certain that identifying assumptions are active.
Beautifully said IMO. :)

Posts: 734
Joined: Fri Jul 14, 2006 1:37 am
Location: NYC

thought vs emotion

Post by weichen » Thu Dec 28, 2006 5:09 pm

Eckhart talked extensively on the relationship between thought and emotion at the begining of Power of Now. This insight is part of the foundation of Power of NOW.

Emotions are amplified and energized thought patterns. You may not be able to bring these "hidden thought activities" up to the level of awareness (so you may not realize you are thinking), but emotion (including depression) are body's physical reaction to these hidden thought activities.

My understanding is that maybe hundreds or many more thought activities are going on, but there is no single dominant thought.

Posts: 119
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:41 am
Location: Australia


Post by innermusiq » Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:55 am

I did not say that during my experienence of empty void that i still felt depressed I described the experience as best i could and said it was as ET said no-thing, without thought stillness and intense silence total accecptance , NO-THING. I said nothing about feeling depressed in that. I repeated it for those of you who seem to say that depression is soley down to thought , because when I became aware of FORM as in my mind and BODY depression was there again.

However I did say that while gazing without labeling I still FELT the feeling of depression, I described what I saw for those of you who say thought of it is there, there was no thought but the feeling of it was there in FORM.

I do KNOW that while in pure awareness or Pure BEING that NO- THING else exists as form including depression.

I did not feel anything while in PURE BEING as described hence I said its a longing to be free of fake , illusion and FREE of FORM.

Even where you quoted me nothing was said about feeling depressed, perhaps I should have said That it wasn't felt then I thought you could see that as in what I had described.

The problem for me as I have said before is that when I interact in the world again depression is there as before.

I also have said that its in awareness NOT that awareness is depressed but awareness is AWARE of the feeling of the depression even when thought has subsided, that Iam not aware of any thought but the burden and heavyness of it is still there.

Hope this clears things up a bit.

Iam so very sorry that I bothered to put any of this out here as I don't like to talk about thses days PEOPLE like you seem to want to argue about little errors of my desciption of how I try to express things.

DEpression is an Illness in a form like any other Illness lets lable it cancer is that a more valid illness in a form a label. Can no thought even in sub conscious cure that.

Depression is not an illness in the mind but in the organism, THE BRAIN, as is cancer in the organism.
Depression affects the whole person (form ) mentally and physically, holistically.

Some of you people have gone to far with a description of HUMAN FORM to the extent that you have lost your understanding and compassion of human suffering.


PUT depressed people down with your lack of compassion and understanding is not LOVE as in pure being.

User avatar
Posts: 2703
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2004 12:37 am
Location: 42nd parallel, Massachusetts, USA

Post by heidi » Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:18 am

Depression in this modern world is often the pathway to being. To finally let go of the struggle and surrender to what is (ET is a good example) to let go and just be. To shoot from the hip of presence. Easy in theory, often hard in practice. But, as we all know, our biggest awakenings are born from exactly that, for without it, we'd have nothing to compare it to.

Happy Awakenings in the new year. XXOO
Last edited by heidi on Fri Dec 29, 2006 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
wonderment on the third wave

Post Reply