Help with sometimes getting stuck in ocd-like thought loops

[Placebo]

Hey everyone. I must say that this forum is a goldmine. I'll probably end up reading every past thread on here. So many of you guys explain things with such clarity that I'm often left in awe.

I suffer with Pure O which is a form of ocd where one has constant obsessive thoughts rather than compulsions like excessive hand washing etc. I read the Power of now and having been practicing presence. Sometimes I can stay aware for hours or even days and just let obsessive thoughts go which feels amazing.

But then sometimes I get completely defeated by horrendous negative thoughts loops and its as if I forgot the whole practice. This can also last for hours or days.

They obviously hit me when I'm not conscious enough but they hit me like a freight train. Its like I have a fear of getting stuck in the loop and when I fear it, it happens. Its like a knee jerk resistance when I don't even feel like I'm trying to resist. Then I try to step out which sometimes works depending on the momentum of the negative thoughts and physiological tension. Its like I get sucked into a vortex and can't get out. Its extremely stressful, scary, and irritating.

I have a huge pain body from a bad childhood and tried to escape my mind for 17 years through substance abuse. Luckily I'm clean now and never looking back. Anyway I think that years of trying to push thoughts and anxiety away created a very strong habit that's ingrained in my head so its like a knee jerk reaction to resist even if I'm trying not to. I'll put my attention back into my body and I'll feel enormous tension everywhere. So then I try just watch it but the tension just stays and doesn't dissolve. I guess I must be looking at it with resistance during these times. This leads to thoughts that its not going to go away which leads to more tension and thoughts. Other times when I'm very present I can watch it and it does dissolve.

Other than when happens though I'm able to stay present to a good degree and this stuff is easily dismissed. But other times I get stuck in it completely.


Thanks guys

[Sighclone]

Placebo -

Welcome, thanks for the kind words.

Resisting thoughts is futile. You know that. So stop doing it. They are going to come up and thrash around until they don't.

Experiment with several meditation practices - a good place to start is "Wherever you go there you are" by Jon Kabat-Zinn...a classic and still very useful.

In your case, a mantra-based practice might be useful.

Try a technique that comes out of Neuro-linguistic programming. That theory kind of got debunked, but this technique is useful:

Welcome the next thought, whatever it is - welcome it into your present moment, but do not energize it, simply witness it. Your presence, your Awareness is a cauldron, a crucible and it is a vaporizer of thoughts and it is very very powerful - more powerful than any thought...way more powerful. Because your presence is the source of all thought. And your presence is full of Grace.

Another technique: Sit down close your eyes and decide to fully occupy the present moment. I mean be right with it - not one ten-millionth of a second ago, but right NOW. If a thought comes up, fine. Simply re-settle into the immediate present moment. Hint: You are the present moment...the Pure Awareness of the present moment. There is no time in the present moment, just stillness. Not Void, but simply a very potentiated stillness.

Also check out Colin Drake. He has a very kind way of expressing nonduality.

Also Amonda Maa - esp. the videos linked to "Watch" in the menu bar of her website:
https://www.amodamaa.com/ - she is my new favorite teacher!!

Be Well,

Andy

[Placebo]

Hey thanks for the warm welcome. I'm going to look into all of your recommendations and yes I definitely know resistance is futile


This practice has really been changing my life. I can go through the day without getting irritated, I don't get bored (even when the present situation would bore almost anyone) I feel empathy and more connected with others and I don't let their unconsciousness get to me, and am much more patient.

It's just this one thought loop that I get stuck in. I'm not sure if i explained it well enough in the OP. I hope I'm making this clear enough. It's like a fear/obsession that I'll resist a thought or body sensation before they even happen, and that fear then makes me feel resistance and tension in my body like I'm on alert. When this starts happening when I'm not conscious enough, it can be incredibly hard to step out of because of my irrational fear that I can't get out when it hits me so hard, its like a knee jerk reaction where I can't stop resisting the automatic resistance because I feel so overwhelmed . It's very irrational and it builds and builds, I feel like it's actually driven me Looney a couple times.


Now when I'm very present, I can let go of this quick but I really have to be on my toes which luckily I am most of the time. But even when I'm fully present I have to keep letting this obsession go. Its incredibly frustrating to always have this pop into my head constantly and the fact that I can get stuck in this insanity every now and then is what keeps me fearing it.

I don't know if this could be considered a normal stumbling block for some people learning the practice or if only someone with obsessive disorder like me can get stuck in this ridiculous mind trap ha. What do you think? Have you heard of anything like this before?

[Webwanderer]

I don't know if this could be considered a normal stumbling block for some people learning the practice or if only someone with obsessive disorder like me can get stuck in this ridiculous mind trap ha.

Nah. Most all of us have our own stumbling blocks. What I find effective is to just be okay with it, knowing it won't last. Being okay with the fear and knowing it won't last work well together in de-energizing old habits. It takes a lot of the resistance out it. Indifference is a great energy killer to internal concerns.

WW

[Placebo]

Thanks WW that was very helpful. It just so happens that I just watched a short video saying exactly what you just said before I read this. https://youtu.be/-M1-TxRY-Ec

It's the fear of it not leaving that keeps it there just like with any other thought form or physical sensation. It's kind of funny in a way because I'm at a point in my journey where I can easily let go of upsetting past/future thoughts or anything unpleasant happening in the moment MOST of the time but that fear of being blocked from the present moment> tension>thoughts of not being able to get rid of the blockage/tension>more tension until I wanna go crazy cycle I just couldn't shake.

Over the last hour I just simply accepted the feeling of blockage (which isin't even real) then the tension dissolved in about 5 minutes. I'm sure it will come up again but that's ok.

[Sighclone]

Indifference is a great energy killer to internal concerns.

Typical of WW, this is short and settled in at the end of a paragraph, but is very powerful and true - thanks WW!!!

Regardless of their source or upside-down and backwards origin, like Placebo's, they are just thoughts...indifference means not loading them with any energy...just a noticing and then moving on.

Andy

[kharr1sma]

You have no idea just how happy I am to read this post, Placebo! I just finished typing up a post, and then deleted it all and "ran away" because I was afraid it would sound too weird and I'd come across like a freak or something (one of my constant fears, among others.) With me, it's music... there's always one song or another playing away, and nothing I can do seems to stop it. I do okay with the verbal and imagery stuff, mostly from the past, I can catch myself before I get in too deep/too long, but the music thing... can't seem to get any traction with it at all. What a relief (I mean, I'm sorry you have to go through this) it is to hear somebody else struggling with something in such a similar manner!

I'm very new to all this... been in AA for 10 months, now, which got me to examining myself and thinking along more spiritual lines, and then this book literally falls at my feet from our bookshelf: "The Power of Now." Seen it before,some time ago, scanned the synopsis, but it never caught my interest. This time, I couldn't put it down for 3 days! Read Eckhart's other books, which sort of lateralled me over into Buddhist teachings... this thing is snowballing!

Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread, just express my thanks. Now I'm sure I've found the right place!!

[Sighclone]

Kharr -

I know I speak for all the regular members and moderators when I say we are always happy to have helped anyone!

You might enjoy exploring Scott Kiloby's center and projects: https://kilobycenter.com/

Scott is a friend and early member here.

Andy

[Hmmimhere]

Hey- this is actually my first post & im pretty new to tolle, but not the ideas/experiences behind it. Anyhow i am curious- op- hows it going for you?

I very much relate to that feedback loop you were describing. I recently started going to r.i meetings (recovery international) and they utilize what are called 'spots' which are pretty much brief mantras to repeat and try to remind ourselves of in moments of distress. One i use a lot lately is: "being comfortable is a want not a need" like you mentioned-- when you allow yourself to experience it you are able to watch it come n go...i guess fighting it is a form of engagement...im trying to handle similar patterns in myself.

[Placebo]

You have no idea just how happy I am to read this post, Placebo! I just finished typing up a post, and then deleted it all and "ran away" because I was afraid it would sound too weird and I'd come across like a freak or something (one of my constant fears, among others.) With me, it's music... there's always one song or another playing away, and nothing I can do seems to stop it. I do okay with the verbal and imagery stuff, mostly from the past, I can catch myself before I get in too deep/too long, but the music thing... can't seem to get any traction with it at all. What a relief (I mean, I'm sorry you have to go through this) it is to hear somebody else struggling with something in such a similar manner!

I'm very new to all this... been in AA for 10 months, now, which got me to examining myself and thinking along more spiritual lines, and then this book literally falls at my feet from our bookshelf: "The Power of Now." Seen it before,some time ago, scanned the synopsis, but it never caught my interest. This time, I couldn't put it down for 3 days! Read Eckhart's other books, which sort of lateralled me over into Buddhist teachings... this thing is snowballing!

Anyway, I don't want to hijack this thread, just express my thanks. Now I'm sure I've found the right place!!

How funny because I get the non stop music playing in my head too ha. What's been helping me is just when this happens with such momentum I just keep bringing my awareness to my inner body. Sometimes I'll have to do it over and over again. Even every couple of seconds for anywhere from ten minutes to an hour. It really sucks but it eventually stops. The mind can gain a huge momentum (like a tidal wave) but being in stillness as much as possible also has a momentum to where it can get stronger and stronger and you end up not minding the mind as much so to speak. Behind these mind games lies our true nature. We have to be able to see that this is the all mind and not our true boundless self. We have to witness the sufferer. So there is a watcher of the mind, but even behind that still, there's a seeing of the watcher who watches these thoughts

Only fear can keep any kind of mind loop going because we are identifying with it. A thought has no power by itself. Its our belief and identification with them that give them their power. They are like parasites, a parasite can't live on its own. It needs to feed, and in this case it feeds on our fear or identification with them. So when we keep feeding it, it grows more and more powerful to the point that it seems impossible to step out of and leads to extreme tension, fear, and excruciating frustration.

It seems so simple when it is explained yet we can still get sucked into it even if we know it's rediculous. I still fall prey to it at times but its getting less and less. Sometimes it helps me to say "take your best shot" and that alone seems to take some power away from it.

So like I was saying, even when the mind momentum keeps building to monumental levels I just keep bring my attention to my inner body, even if I have to do it every 3 seconds. Then soon, I end up only having to do it every ten seconds then 30 seconds until eventually I don't have to do it at all. Then stillness gains of the momentum. Of course this only happens when my awareness/consciousness levels are low which is why its always good to rest in stillness even when your feeling great to make that stillness stronger.

[Placebo]

Hey- this is actually my first post & im pretty new to tolle, but not the ideas/experiences behind it. Anyhow i am curious- op- hows it going for you?

I very much relate to that feedback loop you were describing. I recently started going to r.i meetings (recovery international) and they utilize what are called 'spots' which are pretty much brief mantras to repeat and try to remind ourselves of in moments of distress. One i use a lot lately is: "being comfortable is a want not a need" like you mentioned-- when you allow yourself to experience it you are able to watch it come n go...i guess fighting it is a form of engagement...im trying to handle similar patterns in myself.

Well it is definitely getting better. I recommend reading my reply to Khaar where I go in depth on this. Mantras can definitely be helpful. I'm by no means a spiritual master ha. But I think I'm well on my way to realizing the true self. I actually have realized it many times but the habits of my mind still aren't fully tamed because of how
strongly I have identified with my mind and pain body my whole life.

[SputnikSweetheart]

Hi Placebo!

The users here have all given you excellent advice and I am unable to add anything more wiser or more kind. Follow their suggestions, please.

The reason I'm writing is because I suffered from OCD for many years (I was suffering from obsessive thoughts for about 10 years, ever since I was about 16). The OCD continued even after I had my first powerful awakening experience. Many of my negative emotions, anxiety and depression DISSOLVED completely after that experience, which was mind boggling.

However, OCD did not disappear for at least another 5 years. Often, I'd just sit watching my obsessions go through my mind, knowing these were non-sense but still in mental pain.

I hate recommending people try medications, but basically what happened is that my psychiatrist prescribed me some SSRIs. I took them for about maybe less than a month and my OCD vanished!! (It was pretty unbelievable! ... after 10 years, I thought I was gonna have to live with it).

So basically what I'm saying is that being on an awakening journey means a lot of your anxiety/depressive states/negative emotions will go away by themselves like clouds that cannot withstand the Light of Presence. Sometimes though there are chemical imbalances (like what I think was my case) where you can use medications/therapy/supplements. Your thoughts are generated by brain activity which sadly is in the physical realm. When you are intensely present, it might be the case that many physical ailments are cured or do not manifest, but not all. Even the greatest masters get sick! The brain is just another part of your body, so it's not guaranteed that it's not something to be treated just as you'd treat a kidney stone or a cold.

Hope this helps! I just wanted to share my experience because I thought it could be relevant for you.
Keep us posted!

[Sighclone]

Thanks, Sputnik, great advice! There are a number of nonduality groups in Seattle (I'm in Spokane.)

Andy

[Guy Struggles]

uggh... the 'musical earworms'. them and thoughts of regrets of the past. not fun.

To a degree though, I no longer insist on seeing 'earworms' as so much of an enemy to my presence. Truth is, most of the earworms I get are songs that I quite like, not always but a lot of the time. To a degree I've reasoned that you know what... they may in fact keep my mind from going to worse places. Who cares if its so perfectly remembering some song. I can live with it... (acceptance) AND in fact PRESENCE is FAR more in power. Kind of like giving a complaining child a certain toy that completely absorbed the childs attention. Most all of us have seen it happen so why not just let those awful OCD mind pattern thoughts run in the background. I usually find that the given song dissolves before too long anyways and I can't ever remember what it was 10 minutes later! But alas, I guess that is the magic of acceptance. To resist is to contain, to accept is to allow flow. So give me your 'Its a small world after all' or give me your 'Bohemian Rhapsody' (RIP Freddy) or give me your 'On top of the world' (Carpenters) I just don't care anymore! BRING-IT-ON! If it's there I'll let my mind have it. You can even *use it* to remind you to be the 'watcher', yes, just be amused by it but not consumed by it. It's kind of fun to outsmart the mind when you start to 'get' where the 'real' power is! Pretty much the same rule applies to regrets, anger, and the rest.

Regards,
Guy.