Whats the purpose

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
Post Reply
Antam
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:30 pm

Whats the purpose

Post by Antam » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:33 am

On a Eckhart Tolle Youtube Video, he explain that we shouldn't wait from life to make us happy. No matter if we ajust form like we want, all form is changing and we can't control them, actually we can control the form only for a small laps of time. He say that life is supposed to be frustrating. He explained that yes, the life is supposed to be frustrating, but that there's a purpose under this fact that life is frustrating, but people don't see this purpose. That result people is frustrated from life.

He stop his explication there....

What is the purpose from life is supposed to be frustrated ?

Thank you

User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6703
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Whats the purpose

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:36 am

What is the purpose from life is supposed to be frustrated ?
Our purpose in life can best be seen from a larger perspective. If you can consider yourself an eternal being, an extension of Source Itself, you are in a position to see this physical life dispassionately. What I'm asking you to recognize is that this physical existence, and your physical body, is not the entirety of what and who you are. There is larger perspective of your own self aware being that is the essence of your true nature.

So what then is the purpose of coming to this often challenging physical world? My answer is - to gain experience that cannot be gained any other way. By limiting our perspective through these physical forms we get a sense of separation and isolation from others and our surroundings that does not exist in our true home - that of spirit consciousness. In the context of eternal life, the short time in which we live here, is insignificant, yet quite valuable.

From a human standpoint there is both bad and good experience, most relating to whether it brings us pain or happiness. But from the larger perspective of spirit consciousness, all experience is valuable. There is no judgment on what we do here, only unconditional love and appreciation for the willingness to risk challenges of limited consciousness.

Pain teaches us things that joy cannot. Both matter greatly in understanding the nature of consciousness and being, and both contribute to the larger evolution of that consciousness and being. Frustration, by the way, is an element of the challenges we come here to deal with and to learn from. It makes us ask questions about life we wouldn't otherwise consider. Frustration, while often painful, is a gift. It is in these moments that we can grow best.

So at it's root, our purpose is to explore the human condition. Find out what works and how it affects our relationships and emotions. Consider yourself as human, as a valuable assistant to your larger consciousness reality. Explore the world of your life with love and appreciation for the opportunity to forward the goal of conscious evolution. You can't get it wrong. You can only make it painful or fun by virtue of the attitude and perspective you bring to the adventure.

WW

User avatar
eputkonen
Posts: 496
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:53 pm
Location: Saint Petersburg, FL
Contact:

Re: Whats the purpose

Post by eputkonen » Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:47 pm

Antam wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:33 am
On a Eckhart Tolle Youtube Video, he explain that we shouldn't wait from life to make us happy. No matter if we ajust form like we want, all form is changing and we can't control them, actually we can control the form only for a small laps of time. He say that life is supposed to be frustrating. He explained that yes, the life is supposed to be frustrating, but that there's a purpose under this fact that life is frustrating, but people don't see this purpose. That result people is frustrated from life.

He stop his explication there....

What is the purpose from life is supposed to be frustrated ?

Thank you
Life is only frustrating if you are future seeking...or want the present or past to be other than what it is/was.
Frustration involves a judgment call...that what-is is not good enough as it is...that is the say the present moment is not good enough as it is.
Really, the only problem we have is that life is not going the way we think it should.

As I understand...there is no purpose at all. Purpose is a creation of the mind that we put on what-is...to rationalize or explain things or etc.
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
@EngagedNondual on Twitter
https://www.youtube.com/EricPutkonen

User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6703
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Whats the purpose

Post by Webwanderer » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:14 am

eputkonen wrote:
Thu Apr 25, 2019 6:47 pm
Purpose is a creation of the mind that we put on what-is...to rationalize or explain things
Eric, Would you share your thoughts in bit more detail? If purpose is only a creation of the mind:

1. Is there a larger Mind? Or is our limited human mind all the mind there is?

2. If there is a larger Mind, did it create this human experience? And if a larger Mind did create this human experience, did it do so with, or without purpose?

3. Even if, as you say, there is no underlying purpose in being in this world, how do we explain the the ability to hold purpose in creating most anything? Examples: The desire, intent, and purpose in planning a construction project, alleviating hunger, cleaning up pollution, combing one's hair to impress one's date. For that matter, how does anything get done? The list is certainly endless and seems connected to the inherent propensity to desire, which we all seem to have. It would seem life is filled with purpose.

Your response is appreciated in advance.

WW

User avatar
eputkonen
Posts: 496
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:53 pm
Location: Saint Petersburg, FL
Contact:

Re: Whats the purpose

Post by eputkonen » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:05 am

@WW

Mind is about thought which is mostly conditioned and is tied to a specific body. Purpose and meaning is something adults talk about in regards to work and getting things done, but if you ask a child "what is the purpose of play"...you will see a very confused child or maybe hear "to have fun" in reply. Of course, what is play but to have fun...so you are being told...I am having fun in order to have fun. Play has no purpose or meaning...it is simply play and having fun. The flower does not open up thinking...the purpose of opening up is to attract a bee. It is a mistake to think you need a purpose in order for things to happen. However, we can create purpose and say it is important for children to play for <list whatever reasons you want> and we can create purpose by saying the flowers are there to attract bees. But that is what adult humans do...that is not what children or flowers do. We are fooled by our thinking and believe it. Then we get into the habit of only doing things for good reason (purpose or meaning). Some people then have a spiritual experience and glimpse the truth that there is no purpose or meaning in life...and then find they can't get motivated to get up off the couch. This is pure ego (i.e. the reaction of an ego). The ego wants purpose and meaning, but it is possible to simply play for its own sake.

When the mind is silent and still...and there is no thought...you see things happen - and there is no meaning or purpose assigned to it. What is simply is. Things happen spontaneously. However our advanced brains like creating cause/effect relations and creating purpose and meaning...and that is how superstitions are formed. it is just thought...and in the absence of thought...there is simply what is for its own sake.
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
@EngagedNondual on Twitter
https://www.youtube.com/EricPutkonen

User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6703
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Whats the purpose

Post by Webwanderer » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:54 am

Eric, first off I notice that you did not answer the bulk of my questions relating to the existence of a Source Mind. Is there a reason for that avoidance? The rest of your answer I find unconvincing. You use children as the benchmark for the authenticity of purpose. A child's mind however, is in a stage of development that has little to compare within itself to in order to make sophisticated choices based on accumulated experience and its own thought-out preferences. So it's natural for a child to have little more purpose in life than to have fun.

Even then, children create mud pies for the fun of creating. They do it for a reason. There is a directly link between the purpose of the mud pie and and the fun derived from making it. Or they wouldn't make mud pies. There is a cause and effect relationship of their behavior, and purpose plays a role. Children also create all manor of imaginary worlds to play in. What is their purpose in employing their imagination? Fun of course. That simple expression is expanded with growth into adults who have discovered within themselves the joy of more intentional and purposeful creating.

Next you talk about what flowers and bees do as if they were the equivalent of human rational and cognition. I don't know if flowers have the capacity for purpose as a result of their own conscious choices. That's not to say there is no purpose in flowers. It's just to say that purpose doesn't independently originate within their own chosen preferences. It's seems more likely a design factor from a larger conscious reality.
When the mind is silent and still...and there is no thought...you see things happen - and there is no meaning or purpose assigned to it. What is simply is.
While this may be true as far as it goes, there is more to life than meditation. There is curiosity and exploration and more. For that matter meditation itself is a kind of exploration and has an underlying purpose to explore the stillness.
Things happen spontaneously.
What things happen spontaneously? Even if this should be so, is it genuine spontaneity, or is it just a perception that doesn't recognize underlying causation? How would one know?
However our advanced brains like creating cause/effect relations and creating purpose and meaning...and that is how superstitions are formed. it is just thought...and in the absence of thought...there is simply what is for its own sake.
So you're saying that the idea of purpose is just superstition? And in the absence of thought there is simply - what is! It sounds like you are suggesting that 'what is' is without cause. In other words it's magic? Something out of nothing. How does that work? Wait, it can't 'work' as that would suggest causation. It just is. Really?

Frankly this line of 'thought' sounds more religious than evidentiary.

Of course all of this belies the real concern of this topic's author. He's not so much interested in why children make mud pies, but what is the purpose in being here in the first place with all its potential for pain? That question relates to a larger reality and is well worth consideration - and not simple dismissal.

WW

User avatar
eputkonen
Posts: 496
Joined: Fri Sep 05, 2008 4:53 pm
Location: Saint Petersburg, FL
Contact:

Re: Whats the purpose

Post by eputkonen » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:12 pm

@WW

There is a difference between causation and purpose/meaning.

I see no purpose or meaning in life...and none is needed. Nothing I say will convince one who is attached to purpose and meaning. I just tried to point at what it is like in different ways...to perhaps convey a possible way of seeing and living other than by purpose/meaning. For me, life is play...with no purpose or meaning.

If you want to hold onto purpose and meaning, that is your choice.
Namaste,

~ Eric Putkonen
@EngagedNondual on Twitter
https://www.youtube.com/EricPutkonen

User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6703
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Whats the purpose

Post by Webwanderer » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:43 pm

Eric, from what I can see, you have a materialist view of life - if it can even be called life. Are mechanical processes actually life? An interesting consideration.

And as you, I agree that you too can hold on to your view if it serves you, if it is your choice. Nothing I can say will convince one who is attached to "no purpose or meaning in life". (For the record, I said nothing about 'meaning'.)

Best wishes.

WW

Post Reply