Crying

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summer
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Crying

Post by summer » Fri May 20, 2005 7:53 pm

Perhaps, you women can relate more to this question, but I would appreciate anyone's input.

Sometimes when the pain body feels very active, my thoughts carry a lot of anger in them. Because of an underlying sense of not being heard or understood, my mind will carry on conversations with others and I am yelling. Which trigger emotions like anger and sadness, and my body feels tense and knotted up.
Sometimes I will allow myself to cry, and this always seems to help. My breathing becomes more relaxed and it feels like my heart and chest area open up. It also brings me out of my mind and back into my body.

In psychology and self help circles, this may be considered as healing the past. Letting go of old hurts, and living more in the present.
But, now I am wondering if this only gives more strength to the egoic story of ME? Even though it certainly seems to clear the pain body energy and leaves me feeling much clearer and alert.

Any thoughts or ideas, anyone?

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This is a good topic -- present with the pain body

Post by Sandy » Sat May 21, 2005 6:30 am

How do we learn to pay attention to the flare-ups of the pain body without feeding its glee and promoting its growth and control over us? Considering that my poor little victim me could provide a very long list of recent misfortunes, challenges, and literal head to foot medical issues -- this is a lively topic for me right now. Like you say, anger and sadness seem to be tied up with these emotional pain flare-ups. Whether it is technically correct or not, I have been watching the sensations and in effect asking, "Who is angry? What is the real reason for the anger? What is really behind the weariness and sadness? Who is experiencing this?" Sort of along those lines. No answers yet.

Summer, probably it's OK to cry and have some release. We are wherever we are in our development. Or we can just be aware and witness. This is kind of hard to describe. I have been trying and alternately not trying to get a handle on the free-floating anger I have been experiencing -- in other words it does not have to be specific things going wrong or specific things I do not want others to do. I see that my preoccupation with the medical problems can be so consuming that it is very hard indeed to be open, caring, attentive, and loving toward others. Then whatever their needs are, however slight in actuality, seem overwhelming and produce anger because of the difficulty in having to meet them in any way. It is sure not an intentional anger because I keep not wanting to feel that way.

Anyhow, I am not sure where I read it, but it was a few days ago, and Eckhart said something about how we do not have to work at being more loving, but instead if we become truly present, love will result. So, I kind of stopped putting the cart before the horse. Today a child I take care of said to me several things that made me realize that she sees I am being different, paying more attention and being more patient. At first this effort to just be more fully present rather then trying to be nicer in spite of feeling physically awful seemed awkward and not greatly successful. But then I would notice that just playing the table game or reading the book with more presence produced some kind of closer bonding with that child and the other younger one. Indeed, being present was creating love without directly trying, and that was working better than the trying to make myself feel and act better or whatever.

Sandy

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Post by summer » Sat May 21, 2005 8:53 pm

Dear Sandy,
thanks for your insightful reply.
Today, the big black cloud has floated away, and the sun is shining again :D It is easy to see why Eckhart says that we can feel like we are being possessed by the pain body energy.
And yes. Just being aware of what is happening is so important. Not believing all of the thoughts that pass through our minds. All of the thoughts that tell us that we must do something, and try really hard to fix our outer circumstances. Remaining present in the moment knowing that "this too, will pass"

I like what you said about our natural essence is already loving and pure. And when we listen and pay attention, this love flows easily and effortlessly.

Aren't children the greatest companions to practice being present with? When we listen quietly they seem to sense it instantly, and love is shared in ways that are so delightful and fresh. :)

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Post by Clare » Sun May 22, 2005 12:05 am

This at first warranted a sort of jocular response in me with some reference to the awful post-feminism "big boys don't cry" idealogy. Something along the lines of "Big -Cons- ciousness don't cry".

But then I thought that actuallythis brings up a really relevant idea - the one that actually turned me away from Zen philosophy for a long time (and the more I look the more I see Eckhart's philosophy is Zen philosophy). The idea that to become 'conscious' we must turn into a prefect alabaster obelisk of non reaction, non thought, non feeling. After a while we'd grow pointy ears and be able to wear skin tight pants without embarrasment. :)

But I think it's a basic misconception. I feel it is not about stopping yourself from being human. It is to allow your humanity to surface, and to totally immerse yourself in it, be it in totality in that moment. But also to understand and watch what you are doing. And forgive, acccept and allow. It's like holding your own hand whilst you go through something; not trying to deny yourself the going through it.

We are human; humans' cry (if they have any compassion). We are also Divine energy; Divine energy supports humanity through all its frailties.

be gentle with yourself, Summer.
Love, Clare

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Post by summer » Sun May 22, 2005 1:13 am

Dear Claire,
beautiful response, Claire.
Someone else who I shared this question with, told me "being more conscious, means being more human"
And that really struck a chord in me. Somehow I had misunderstood that being more detached meant not having feelings. A lot like you are describing. And this is not the case.

And believe me girls also get the message that "big girls don't cry" So it goes totally against my conditioning to cry at all.
What I was feeling yesterday wasn't the "poor me' sort of snivelling and whining. It felt more like a deep compassion for all of the suffering that humanity experiences in the unconscious state that we all know.

Thanks for the reminder to be gentle with myself. Often some of the thoughts that float through the mind are not very gemtle or compassionate. I can just let them disappear into the ethers that they arose out of :wink:

Hoping that you are doing well,
summer

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Post by Sandy » Sun May 22, 2005 4:44 am

summer wrote:Dear Sandy, thanks for your insightful reply. Today, the big black cloud has floated away, and the sun is shining again :D It is easy to see why Eckhart says that we can feel like we are being possessed by the pain body energy. And yes. Just being aware of what is happening is so important. Not believing all of the thoughts that pass through our minds. All of the thoughts that tell us that we must do something, and try really hard to fix our outer circumstances. Remaining present in the moment knowing that "this too, will pass"
Hi Summer, I had a similar experience today. I think I must have made that post above right before I went to sleep. I do not have the time set here on this forum correctly to know for sure. In the night, there were times of like lucid dreaming where I am in a sense conscious and watching the images. Instead of being sometimes attracted to or pulled into the images and then into unconscious dreaming, there was a form of just witnessing for a very extended and yet timeless present. There was also a sense of infinite spaciousness, something that Eckhart mentions on some of his recordings.

Morning came round, and I moved from bed to my recliner in the living room and was partly snoozing and meditating. Then a realization happened, "Where is the rage and depression that have relentlessly gripped me in recent weeks?" Just gone. Poof, out of here. Then the day went amazingly well. Not because there were no problems. There was a task and trip across town and back which usually has me frustrated and resentful to the max-- but everything just rolled along and the conversations involved were temperate in an effortless way rather then through trying to not react negatively. And so on. So again, it turns out that being present is where the pain-body can take a hike and natural grace can arise. When Eckhart says it is all so simple, that is hard to believe after trying to follow so many self-improvement notions -- until we see it just happen. Sandy

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Post by erict » Sun May 22, 2005 5:20 am

This is from Conversations with God by Neale Donald Walsch. Check it out:

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"Be sincere; don't ask questions out of mere interest. Ask dangerous questions—the ones whose answers could change your life."

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Post by barbarasher » Sun May 22, 2005 6:07 am

Dear Summer.
But, now I am wondering if this only gives more strength to the egoic story of ME
Yes, I had been doing that for years. Hopefully, I am mostly recovered now. While driving usually, like I think what if that happened and then that and then that and then poor me and then I'll shed a tear. Add to that and I'll say that and they'll say that and so on.

I think that these situations are the stories, the past and the future that we will benefit by not telling ourselves, not breathing life into these pointless painful thoughts. Thinking them brings life to them, and we are doing it.

Oh and yes, if we can't stop it and are already at the point of a tear wanting to come, let it happen.

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Post by summer » Sun May 22, 2005 5:59 pm

Very interesting posts, everyone,
I like the way Eric expanded this topic to include all of our emotions. And what happens when we have spent years repressing our natural healthy responses to life.
It must take a lot of energy to repress all of this! Which may account for the unconscious resistance to being present in the moment, that triggers the mind into thinking about the past, and worrying about the future.

And perhaps, to consciousness it doesn't really matter if we are happy, sad, or angry.
Life is what it is. And when we can accept it fully, just the way it is, we flow naturally in a higher state of awareness.

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Post by ECM » Tue May 24, 2005 5:23 am

I recently read an interview that ET did on the web and since I'm a bit new to the NOW I found this interview helpful.

"When I first met Tolle — a slight man with soft, grey-blue eyes and a goatee beard — he by no means exuded charisma. Rather, the air of a shy professor. He spoke with a faint German accent, his conversation frequently punctuated by staccato laughs so fierce as to make his shoulders shake. Nothing, it seemed, was to be taken too seriously — least of all his international success. "


This was a nice ending to this interview:

When talking with Tolle, I neither experienced a great sense of awe nor had any momentous revelations. But, as I was leaving, he caught me off guard, and hugged me. It was as though I had been squeezed by a huge force that, nonetheless, trembled like a feather in the wind.

I walked out, and my mind fell quiet. For some reason, I could feel tears in my eyes. Suddenly, everything on that ordinary Kensington Street and in the cafe where I stopped to collect myself, seemed intensely beautiful. I also have no explanation for this. Tolle is now in the limelight. His appearance hasn’t changed much — since “the shift”, he says, he has aged slowly — but his life has.

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Post by edgehabitat » Thu Jan 12, 2006 6:44 pm

summer wrote: And perhaps, to consciousness it doesn't really matter if we are happy, sad, or angry.
Life is what it is. And when we can accept it fully, just the way it is, we flow naturally in a higher state of awareness.
From the Power of Now, page 156, "Even if everything were to collapse and crumble all around you, you would still feel a deep inner core of peace. You may not be happy, but you will be at peace."

It is possible after experiencing deep loss and emotional suffering, to enter deeply into the pain, sob and sob and feel that pain, then relax, focus on the breath and feel the peace wash over you, the peace that lies beyond the pain. Know that the pain and suffering is the transmuting fire that will open you to a higher state of consciousness, and a keener awareness of your inner peace.

As he explains, "happiness" and "inner peace" are not the same. Inner peace has no opposite, it is eternally abiding, while happiness can turn to unhappiness at the slightest provocation.
Peace,
Mary

Lord, make me an instrument of your peace.

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Post by kiki » Fri Jan 13, 2006 12:54 am

edgehabitat wrote:It is possible after experiencing deep loss and emotional suffering, to enter deeply into the pain, sob and sob and feel that pain, then relax, focus on the breath and feel the peace wash over you, the peace that lies beyond the pain.
On the occasion of each of my parents' deaths I experienced the deepest peace - simultaneous with the crying was undeniable peace and stillness. I completely let go and sobbed, and then it was over. It really was profound. I think that is why my "grieving" stage was so short, just a matter of days, because I also was feeling such peace and stillness.

k

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Post by heidi » Fri Jan 13, 2006 1:52 am

With consciousness comes the understanding of what's thought and what's emotion. Allowing emotions purely to be, free from mind stuff, allows grief or any feeling to do its thing. To feel sans mind stuff is to feel fully.
:)

I'm reminded of how I got kicked out of that other PON forum for talking about how the PON was so helpful for me in dealing with the grief I had about the last US election. I removed all thought, all reasoning, all duality, and still right there was a deep gaia grief (that's the only way I could descibe it), and to own it presently was a wonderful experience.
Heidi
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Post by phil » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:15 am

heidi wrote:I'm reminded of how I got kicked out of that other PON forum for talking about how the PON was so helpful for me in dealing with the grief I had about the last US election.
Heidi, I'm not sure if this is appropriate, but I'd be interested in seeing what forum would kick _you_ out.

A forum that would kick me out is not an interesting mystery.

But a forum that would kick you out is.

If you care to share, via the board or PM, I'd welcome it.

For what it may be worth, good for you for caring enough about the world beyond yourself that you experienced some grief. You won my vote.

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Post by heidi » Fri Jan 13, 2006 3:53 am

It's all in the past, Phil. The reason why this forum exists, though, is because of that. I was banned and I didn't know it, and when I next tried to post, I was wondering what was wrong with the forum, and after emailing a few friends on the forum, and finally getting info from the moderator, I was told that I'd been banned for the above mentioned.

So, as we've been discussing that concept of Everything is As it Should Be - well, that was a good thing since otherwise this forum wouldn't exist. In fact, even though I really am not so invested in all of this online stuff, it was that little obstacle (being shut out) that was the steppingstone to what we have here.

That's why Eric and I created this new and liberal forum :)
That's the story plain and simple.
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