Dreams...

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
semiral
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Dreams...

Post by semiral » Wed Jan 10, 2007 1:31 am

Hi,

What do you think is the significance of dreams from a perspective of ET’s teaching? Would you look for “guidance” in them or simply ignore them?

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kiki
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Post by kiki » Wed Jan 10, 2007 8:41 pm

Dreams are just more storytelling, with the added novelty of being perceived as possibly having a "meaning" somehow applicable to our "ordinary" life. They are additional threads in weaving an egoic tapestry to identify with and get lost in.

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summer
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Post by summer » Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:55 am

And yet I remember Eckhart saying that the original idea for his book, The Power of Now, came to him in a dream. Before he had thought about writing a book, he dreamt of a book with his name as the author.

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Post by Blenderhead » Thu Jan 11, 2007 5:50 am

Many scientists and writers have had insights from dreams, there is no reason to ignore them. The problem is when people believe dreams will set them free and they begin to spend their entire lives waiting for the right vision.

Edit: There is an interesting story in the bible about this. A man who has been ill for thirty years is waiting for an angel to stir up the waters in the pond. The holy water is a picture of the divine in dreams and reality (visions) and its healing powers. Bethesda is the name of the pond, but this man who is waiting near the pond for a miracle does never get healed until Jesus tells him to take his bed and leave the waters. When people ask the man who healed him, he doesn't even have anything to say, no story about an angel or an experience, he was just cured - no story. It's an interesting story in the new testament. :)
Last edited by Blenderhead on Thu Jan 11, 2007 2:16 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by AnEternalNow » Thu Jan 11, 2007 6:59 am

summer wrote:And yet I remember Eckhart saying that the original idea for his book, The Power of Now, came to him in a dream. Before he had thought about writing a book, he dreamt of a book with his name as the author.
That's interesting.. I have never heard of it. Can you or anyone else provide the sources?

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Post by AnEternalNow » Thu Jan 11, 2007 7:02 am

Maybe this is something to ponder on.

15 Those who dream of a banquet may wake to lamentation and sorrow. Those who dream of lamentation and sorrow may wake to join a hunt. While they dream, they do not know that they dream. Some will even experience a dream within a dream; and only when they awake do they realize they dreamed of a dream. By and by comes the great awakening, and then we may find out that this life is really an extended dream. Fools think they are awake now, and flatter themselves they know if they are really princes or peasants. Confucius and you are both dreams; and I who say you are dreams—I am but a dream myself. This is a paradox. To-morrow a wise man may come forward to explain it; but that tomorrow will not be until ten thousand generations have gone by.

Once upon a time, I, Chuang Tzu, dreamt I was a butterfly, fluttering hither and thither, to all intents and purposes a butterfly. I was conscious only of following my fancies as a butterfly, and was unconscious of my individuality as a man. Suddenly I awaked, and there I lay, myself again. Now I do not know whether I was then a man dreaming I was a butterfly, or whether I am now a butterfly dreaming I am a man. Between a man and a butterfly there is necessarily a barrier. The transition is called metempsychosis.


~ Chuang Tzu

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Post by Ives » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:04 am

I wanted to pick up this thread to ask a question.

In recent times my pain body has been very inactive. I would imagine this to be the result of working on it (accepting it, etc.) over the past few years. However, recently it has become active during sleep. The result has been as series of horrific, gory nightmares.
I'm wondering: is the pain body trying to ‘feed itself’ during sleep when there's no-one around to catch it? (It’s almost amusing).

Has anyone had any experience of this or any opinions?

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Post by eseward » Fri Apr 20, 2007 12:07 pm

Ives, sorry nothing to offer re painbody dreams, but a question comes to mind: is an inactive painbody a goal for you? Just curious on your take.

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The cause of dreams

Post by weichen » Fri Apr 20, 2007 2:14 pm

Ives wrote:In recent times my pain body has been very inactive. I would imagine this to be the result of working on it (accepting it, etc.) over the past few years. However, recently it has become active during sleep. The result has been as series of horrific, gory nightmares.
I'm wondering: is the pain body trying to ‘feed itself’ during sleep when there's no-one around to catch it? (It’s almost amusing).

Has anyone had any experience of this or any opinions?
Ives,

From my real life experience:

1. Conversion from bad dream to comfortable dream (e.g. you are flying with wings high in sky) may reflect your belief that those forms you cling to and could not get (or you had it but then you thought you lost it) are now well within your reach again. It is caused by recent events. Understand this conversion is important, as the underlying mechanism most likely is exactly the same for the following type of conversion you raised.

2. Horrific, gory nightmares (or any uncomfortable dreams) may often come from tiny daily event that challenge the belief that the form you cling to are indeed well within your reach. I use the word "tiny", because if this is not tiny event then you would easily see the cause of your recent nightmare.

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Post by Agnieszka » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:36 pm

what a coincidence: I also wanted to ask a question about ET's teaching vs. nightmares. I used to think and worry a lot about my nightmares but not anymore. What is weird about some of them is that there were two or three that I felt had come from elsewhere :D , i.e. not from my ego-subconscious but from some very, very malicious "entities" from behind the veil :D That's how some of them feel to me and even that's not a pleasant experience - I wake up and say hmmm..., ok, let it go, let it flow you cute nightmare of mine!

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Variety expression of ego

Post by weichen » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:50 pm

What is weird about some of them is that there were two or three that I felt had come from elsewhere , i.e. not from my ego-subconscious but from some very, very malicious "entities" from behind the veil
Often people see ego as "get money, get higher social status, ...."; and not see ego as "keep the money I already earned against malicious thief, keep my body healthy and alive against poisoner and murderer". Because the latter was much much rare, only those who "made it or about to make it" would experience such nightmare. To me, they are all ego (mental constructs).

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Post by heidi » Fri Apr 20, 2007 4:51 pm

Just the midnight matinée of the chattering monkeys thespian group - with special guest performers!. :)
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Post by Ives » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:27 pm

Thank you all so much for your replies. I think just getting it ‘out there’ and discussing it in a public forum should help a lot: bringing it into consciousness.

Making the unconscious conscious has sort of always been an aim of mine, whether through psychology or through spirituality.

I first read about the pain-body almost thirty years ago in the books by Arthur Janov (the author of 'The Primal Scream’ and inventor of Primal Therapy). He called it Primal Pain. I've verified its existence in myself and everyone I've met on a daily basis ever since. But Janov’s only solution was to do his therapy.

Instead, Eckhart Tolle gives guidelines on how to get rid of the pain-body.
By following his advice/techniques, I've managed to make mine a lot less of a problem, a lot less active and a lot less intrusive. It has been somewhat, not totally, dissolved in the light of presence.

eseward wrote:is an inactive painbody a goal for you?
My aim is not to keep it quiet, like putting tape over someone’s mouth, but rather to dissolve it as much as possible. I agree with Eckhart that it is frozen energy that has almost taken on a life of its own. So the aim would be to unfreeze it, unlock it and thereby free up the energy that it traps.

I've a feeling my dreams are going to get a lot more interesting for a while…

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Post by eseward » Fri Apr 20, 2007 6:37 pm

Right, Ives. I've totally seen what looks like Janov's primal pain within myself over the years! :)

John Lennon was a fan/client of Janov if I remember correctly.

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Post by Webwanderer » Fri Apr 20, 2007 11:43 pm

I’ve thought a lot about dreams over the years. I’ve read more books than I can remember and even experimented with lucid dreaming with some success. My take is that dreams have two primary roles.

The first is to bring into consciousness reflections of our daily lives that we are troubled by, and may be avoiding acceptance of. It is common for one to attempt to bury some troubling issue that requires further processing in order to find peace with it. Dreams may be the path that keeps these issues from becoming permanently subconscious and thereby creating unseen obstacles to a clear and peaceful experience of life.

The second is a daily and personal reminder of the over all structure of creation. As I have noted before in some other threads, the dream world is a kind of microcosm for the Divine nature of life. The dream world is an internal holographic expression of thought form. Each of us generally inhabits our own dream as an apparently indivisible character, interacting with other separate characters, and with the other various forms within the dreamscape scenario.

While there, our dreaming consciousness suspends all memory, of what would otherwise be rational thought, about what is possible in our “normal, waking world”, in favor of strange environments. We accept whole cloth, for the most part, the most bazaar things as we find them. All parts and characters within the dream, including the self identity, are internal creations. They have no real substance outside the dream and are abandoned without concern upon awakening.

Could this not be a Divine reminder of our fundamental nature? Is this not a fair description of our waking world, seen from a perspective of clear Awareness, beyond separate-self identity?

And finally, do we retain a similar sense of self, albeit increasingly less encumbered, from the dream character, to the awakened person, to the Awakened Being? Hmm, I wonder…..

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