Drugs

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
kakafoni
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Drugs

Post by kakafoni » Mon Apr 30, 2007 9:32 pm

Hi all
I remember Tolle mention drugs somewhere in the power of now. Does anyone know extensively what's his take on drugs?
regards, d.

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Post by AndyD » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:50 pm

On one of his DVDs he mentions he took Acid as someone asked him if it was the same as been enlightened - some aspects he said were the same others not.

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Post by Ives » Tue May 01, 2007 6:55 pm

In another of his talks, Eckhart says that taking a drug like cannabis or acid excites the senses so much that for a brief period the person may be forced into a thoughtless state.
So (my example), it’s hard to think if you are completely overwhelmed by the beauty of a piece of music, say.

And then he adds, offhandedly: “But this is better”.
(I think all here would agree)

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Post by A Name is a Label » Fri May 18, 2007 4:33 pm

In my experience, drugs can certainly give you a taste of presence in terms of becoming aware of yourself. I've always felt like I became "the watcher" if I were high (marijuana); becoming more aware of my behaviours or thinking pattern. I agree with Eckhart and the above poster, Drugs are what they are... they have positive effects and negative effects. This - Being - Is unfathomably better than the effects of any drug. Nothing seems to compare to the joy that you can experience from being.

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Post by Intel » Fri May 18, 2007 4:52 pm

In one of her talks, Gangaji said she had some of her first experiences of awakening taking acid, and went into explicit detail of the experience.

However, drugs are still subject to law of impermanency, after that great high, indeed you will come down. Also even if your not thinking while on a drug, you may have dropped below thought in most cases, to unawareness.

There is nothing wrong with smoking, drugs or alchohol in themselves. The problem arises when they take over our lives and we become addicted to them. We feel we need them to get on in life, you attached yourself to form, which is destined to dissolve. It has got in the way of being. That is when the problem arises.
I would lick your feet, but is that the sickest move?

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Post by Ives » Fri May 18, 2007 8:49 pm

Intel wrote: Even if you're not thinking while on a drug, you may have dropped below thought...
Yes, have you ever noticed how you can have a "great" insight while high and then the next morning it's difficult even to remember what it was? :)

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Post by old dead wood » Sun Jun 24, 2007 7:49 pm

Those who are considering taking any mind-altering drugs should first read all the personal "Bad Trips" anecdotes for all the drugs listed on the website, EROWID.COM. Just READING these horror stories gives me panic attacks.

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Post by Ives » Fri Jun 29, 2007 1:19 pm

Well, that sounds like a fun thing to do. :D :D

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Post by cracklepop » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:38 am

It's interesting how drugs emulate presence. I remember once I was in a state of complete presence, a feeling of utter joy and peace (for a couple of minutes until my mind kicked in again), it was exactly the same experience that I had when taking ecstasy.

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Post by Larryfroot » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:54 am

gruds like, really mess your mind up

man...

Did some salvia divanorum recently....I rarely do drugs, btw.

I had an incredible clear light experience.

Would I go back there to try it again? No way. I'm grateful for the experience, but trying to extract some spiritual value out of drug taking is fraught at best, and the drugs chosen...psychotropic long lasting hallucinogens (Salvia Divanorum lasts about 20 mins which I thought was potentially less harmful than something that went on for 8 12 hours)...can actually screw up the mind...and where can one go spiritually with a damaged mind?

Nah, mate gruds are for people who don't know what reality is, who seem to think that the content of their lives are their lives...one taste of presence is enough to demonstrate the inaedquacy of the grud experience in establishing an ongoing spiritual experience.

Funny thing for someone who has recently done Salvia Divanrum to say, I know. But I had heard about it years ago, and then came across some at my friends. I knew it only lasted 20 mins...so curiosity got the better of me.

Oh.My.God.

Not for people of a nervous disposition....scared me witless before the clear light came...
Many a mickle muches a markle.

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Post by eseward » Mon Jul 02, 2007 4:57 pm

Larryfroot wrote:gruds are for people who don't know what reality is, who seem to think that the content of their lives are their lives...one taste of presence is enough to demonstrate the inaedquacy of the grud experience
Absolutely agree, Larry. :)

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Post by Seancho » Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:23 pm

Ive done my thing with substances, and I wouldnt trade those experiences for anything. Im not even against using them in the future, just far less interested.

I think plants and chemicals might have a place in showing one a little bit of what is possible, or at least showing that the mind can be a much larger place than one supposes. But do drugs ever really take you there? If they did, the entire boomer generation would be wise and happy and I dont see that.

Among the 'trip' culture I think even people that take these things hundreds of times too often make the mistake of attributing the miraculous experience to the pill/plant instead of to their own brain/mind...a trip, an 'experience.' Buy a ticket, watch the movie. and thats not going to get you very far.

And then there are the dangers. When we dont understand our minds perfectly, we run the risk of doing drugs with an agenda we dont fully understand. That can lead deeper into illusion, avoidance, dependence, etc.

But its interesting, it seems these days Im returning to some of the deeper spaces I once visited with substances. Entering the 'thoughtform' space now is very different than back then. When you enter by your own effort everything is much clearer and focused. Clean. Observation is intact.

Im realizing now that when I would enter those spaces under the influence of something, my mental power was limited....most of the time I was being manipulated by the 'beings' there. I even knew it at the time...every time Id approach some valuable insight, 'something' would distract my attention. A moment later, I would remember that Id seen something important, but I couldnt say what it was. Gone. As if something didnt want me to see. Its a bit like being a tourist in a strange city for the afternoon and getting fleeced by the locals. Now I live there. and the beings are my neighbors :shock: .

You can hold a baby on his feet and help him 'walk' Thats fun, and even instructive. But its not the same as when the kid first tries to stand up on his own. You can swim with a float, great, but thats a very different thing than floating on your own.
If you stop believing in fear, is it still scary?

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Post by JD » Thu Jul 05, 2007 12:01 am

Seancho wrote:I think plants and chemicals might have a place in showing one a little bit of what is possible, or at least showing that the mind can be a much larger place than one supposes...
I agree entirely.

I read the subjective idealist philosopher, George Berkeley, when I was fifteen and became intellectually convinced that the cosmos was mind; but it wasn't until I took acid a year later that I actually experienced the truth of his insight.

And it was William James's experiments with nitrous oxide that led the great psychologist to state that:
Our normal waking consciousness, rational consciousness as we call it, is but one special type of consciousness, whilst all about it, parted from it by the filmiest of screens, there lie potential forms of consciousness entirely different.
Many people who haven't taken drugs never even suspect that this is true.

They may think that an advanced mystic is a little calmer than they are (if they don't think that he's a lunatic), but few suspect the vast degree of qualitative difference between their respective states of consciousness.

Like Ram Dass, many people experienced their first taste of altered states of consciousness through drugs, then went looking for a way to reproduce those states on a more permanent basis through spiritual disciplines.

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Post by Larryfroot » Thu Jul 05, 2007 9:21 pm

Yep...I have had a fair few peak clear light experiences with gruds, but their was and is a price I paid and am still, to an extent paying through lowered attention spans, general vagueness and poor concentration in many areas...my core competencies are still there, but anything else is really difficult.

The point being I suppose that acid and mescaline and magic mushrooms showed me what was possible. And the next time they showed me what was possible and next time I took them they showed me what was possible and next time I took them they showed me what was possible and next time I took them they showed me what was possible and next time I took them they showed me what was possible........

And that was it.
Many a mickle muches a markle.

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Post by weopposedeception » Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:44 am

Ha! that's great Larry, I'll second that. To this day I don't know what a completely dark room looks like.

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