DRUGS_DEPRESSION_ANXIETY

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DRUGS_DEPRESSION_ANXIETY

Postby Nasir » Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:13 am

dear friends
it is my first time on here and im hoping someone can help me>
im twenty three years old and ive been using drugs since i was fifteen and ive tried killing myself several times> ive been clean for six months now and it was one year ago when i read power of now> i suffered great depression during that time and great anxiety for many years now> anyway ive been trying for eight months now to switch off my thinking and ive had brief glimpses of being present and i can feel my emotions again in fact i came to tears when i had a glimpse of one day without the tormentor in my head (thoughts) however it was only a glimpse and my old mind patterns started going one hundred miles again and i started getting my anxiety worse than ever again> ive just got a new job and i went to the doctor to get some pills for my anxiety as it disables me at work or whenever next to people and the doctor said something to me thats put me back into a deep depression and just when i was starting to feel hope again his words have crushed me> he told me i have obsessive compulsive thinking disorder and bi polar depression and told me i have to be on medication for the rest of my life and i will always be like this because of a chemical or some damage in my brain> can you please tell me can i heal my self or will i always be tormented by my thoughts because theres a damage between my frontal lobe and my rear lobe of my brain?
yours sincerely[/i][/code]
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Postby Clare » Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:32 pm

Dear Nasir,

Mental Illness, is just that, an illness, and it is no worse than having any other medical condition, and fortunately is very managable, especially bi-polar.

I would suggest a whole-istic approach. By that I mean do all you can to get beyond this on both a medical, physical AND spiritual level. Leave no stone unturned. Certainly on a spiritual level anything is possible and complete healing can be achieved; however, we have to be in a mind state where we can reach for spiritual help in healthy way and apply it consistently before we can try for that.

First thing: get a second opinion. Being diagnosed with a mental illness is worth having checked out by another person. If you can afford to go private, go private. Choose your doctor, because, however transient or permanent this condition is, you are going to need people who you feel comfortable with and who you trust.

See this condition as a spiritual challenge for you to get more in touch with yourself and to learn how to serve your higher purpose. Take a day at a time. Be PRESENT. Start to look after yourself the way you would look after a child that was in trouble. Feed yourself good food, do lots of research into how best to help yourself - research the medications and work with your doctor to find a program and dosage that is suitable for you. Find a good cousellor or therapist, one that comes highly recommended. Put time aside for quiet and rest, and surround yourself with inspirational things. Remember that spiritual healing never happens on just one level; it always has to be brought down into the physical care of our well-being before it can truly manifest.

Most of all, remember you are valuable and loveable just as you are. That you are perfect as you are, and that this challenge is exactly what you need to develop fully. It's a thing I keep reminding myself as I go through my own kind of hardship.

Blessing you and sending you love
Clare
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Postby Clare » Fri Nov 18, 2005 1:57 pm

Another thing to say is that I do indentify with your experience of when trying this technique having a surge of extra negativity to deal with shortly afterward. I am wondering if this is a by-product of becoming present? Or maybe we are not applying it correctly. Or maybe it is an imperfect method. I have no judgement on it as I really don't know, but one thing I do know, is it is important to not take anyone's teachings or theory completely to heart as our total reality.

Do what works for you, leave the rest. The 'tormentor in your head' can also be silenced in other ways - simple psychological techniques. Talk with a good therapist about this.
Warmly, Clare
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Postby spatialbean » Fri Nov 18, 2005 11:56 pm

Hello Nasir,

Yes yes yes please listen to Clare and do not dispair. Oh! I rhymed!

I can tell you that no, you will not always be tormented by your thoughts. I have the same illness and I take medicine and I am doing just fine. I was tortured by my endless thoughts for many many years, and even now when my medicine somehow gets "off" the racing thoughts come back and I have to remind myself that it is a temporary condition until I get balanced again.

You and I are no different from a diabetic who needs insulin and a good food plan to keep their blood sugar balanced. You and I need serotonin and other things because our brain chemicals aren't at the proper levels for healthy functioning. What can seem like a failure of will or strength because it is your thoughts that are racing is actually a physical malfunction, not a malfunction of character.

When I was on the right medicine, after quite a bit of trial and error, be prepared for some of that, I suddenly found I could get out of my own way! Now what I experience is much more in alignment with what others experience with PoN. I have normal trip ups on the path, not devastating and hopeless trip ups.

I'm happy you found this place and I am happy you wrote. I hope that our words will help you see that there is more than hope. Keep us updated on how you are doing.

Love,
Claudia
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Postby Nasir » Sat Nov 19, 2005 7:45 am

thankyou very much claudia and clare for responding. Yous have given me hope again and "on a spiritual level anything is possible' i believe that. I suppose what i find soothing for my mind to help me heal myself is to not listen to what doctors tell me. Am i right if i say that living especially in Australia where there is no spirituality (compared to my home country of turkey) maybe there is less inspiration around and people tend to go to a doctor for everything and doctors like keeping people on medication so they can keep earning money. Is that irrational or could i be true. With this hope im going to keep fighting through this pain and the demon in my head ill keep fighting to overcome. I just cant settle for what the doctor has told me. I would rather kill myself. Thankyous again love nasir
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Postby Nasir » Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:14 am

claudia and clare when i say i would rather kill myself i dont mean because of the title the doctor has given me for my illness but i mean that when the doctor told me i had this and ill be like this forever my thoughts in my head straight away started making me feel worried and that ill constantly be stuck in this state of mind which is a reallllllll hell. Thats what made me scared and killed all hope i was starting to get after reading tolles book. Your replies have put me back on my spiritual journey again where i know deep inside ill overcome this tormenting ego.
its been 8 months since i started reading tolles book and ive spoken to a few other people my age who used drugs the same i did and same amount of time and they all went through what i went throught and it took them about a year to get back to normal and they all said their mind played tricks on them too. Could it be they had the same bipolar and obsessive compulsive thinking disorder the doctor diagnosed me with and they overcame it but actually didnt get diagnosed with it by a doctor?
also what i realize is when i start observing my thoughts it consumes great energy and when i get that glimpse of disidentifying myself with my thoughts i get a real sad feeling and which i start to try to start watching my emotions as ive done the job with my thoughts but then i will sense my thoughts coming again and they will take over and ill start getting the most sub consience thought patterns arising again and ill get constant butterflies in my stomach that actually make me vomit. its like a real nervousness. its like i reach the top of the mountain and then crash allllll the way to the botom again. im wondering if yous can share anything with me on this.
yours sincerely
lots of love nasir
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Postby spatialbean » Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:12 am

These types of illnesses can sometimes reverse after taking medicine for a while, but you have to take the medicine to get the benefits of it. You won't feel bad while on the right medicine for you. Sometimes it takes a while to get used to the medicine, and sometimes it takes some time to find the right medicine for you. You have to be patient with it all, but in the end, the thoughts will calm down and you will be able to do spiritual practice as anyone would. Your "brain" and thoughts will be like everyone else.

I hope you will trust the doctors and at least try what they are suggesting. Sure, doctors do make money but not from the pill companies, and the doctors I went to were doing charity work, so they barely make any money at all. They are there to help you.

When the doctor told me that I will be on medicine it made me very sad also. I felt broken, but I am good now on the medicine. No racing thoughts, no nervousness, and I can practice PoN without my thoughts taking over.

I hope you will not harm yourself, and I hope you will continue to look for a doctor that you like and trust, and perhaps a spiritual group to go to also.

Love,
Claudia
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Perfect Meditation

Postby IamOM » Sat Nov 19, 2005 12:29 pm

I have found this helpful for depression.
I know others who have to.
Thought I'd suggest it.
It has good effects straight away but then it can take years for the real effects to shine through. You need a bit of commitment and patience with it.
Good Luck here is the link http://www.perfectmeditation.com
Without a thought you know.
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Postby Clare » Sat Nov 19, 2005 3:48 pm

Hi Nasir, again,

Like I said, it may be useful for you to get a second independent opinion from another doctor. make sure. However, if you do happen to be bi-polar, please don't fall into the trap of not accepting any diagnosis and refusing treatment. That's as dangerous as ignoring a breast lump for the fear of it being cancer.

I have a nephew who was several times diagnosed as schizophrenic, and the major cause of his decline from a mild form of the illness to now a serious highly paranoid state was his refusal to accept it. He only took the drugs if he was forced to by sectioning ( being committed) and as soon as he felt well, and was out, he would come off of them. This created massive surges of chemical in his brain that incrementally worsened his condition every time he did it - which meant higher doses of drugs every time.

He also (and this can be part of the condition) took recreational drugs (namely Ecstacy and Weed and Speed) to 'self medicate' when he started to feel bad. Again, this worsened his condition considerably. |If there is already an imbalance, taking any kind of unmeasured chemcial that by its nature alters mood or reality with a big come down afterward is going to make things much worse.

I tell you this simply as a pre-emptive warning of possible pitfalls. Be self aware. I don't know if you are bi-polar or not, or even if being that way is particularly serious if caught and managed adequately - certainly Claudia seems to have a handle on it that is admirable, you should listen to her - but I do know that the first thing I would advise you to do is get someone you trust to check it out as a second opinion. If you feel you are just reconfiguring your brain after years of drug-taking and that it's just a typical reaction, well, monitor that. Give yourself a couple of months and see if you start to feel better or worse. If things worsen for you, get help.

I would also maybe advise you to not try too hard with the PON at the moment. One thing I know about it is that becoming present is like any other spiritual purging, it throws you off balance for a while before you rebalance - it happened to me. But if you are already rebalancing from some extreme form of altering of your reality, like drug taking, then it may all be a bit too much for your system to handle. I would suggest that you try to work on this panic and torment you are feeling with a trusted professional for the time being: find a good therapist. You need support and guidance at this time. It sounds to me like you are trying to do so much on your own, and one of the things about becoming more present and aware is knowing when to ask for help.

My very best to you as you continue on your healing journey.
You are worthy, remember that.
Love, Clare
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Postby lakeswimr » Sun Nov 20, 2005 4:05 am

Nasir,

Welcome. :D

These are just my opinions so please take them with a grain of salt...

Someone very close to me had a mental breakdown a few years ago and I learned a lot about mental illness out of necessity. I took a course through the American organization NAMI which was 12 weeks and went into detail on the major types of mental illness and medication, treatment, recovery possibilities, etc, etc. It was quite informative and interesting. Luckily the person close to me has major depressin and has a good chance to get off medication totally but also very luckily medication worked for this person.

I used to be against medication in general for mental illness but I didn't know anything about mental illness. I think there is a very common belief that meds are passed out like candy and doctors like to put patients on them. The truth seems to be that meds help people a great deal. There are PET scans of the brains of people with various mental illness and they show brain differences between people with mental illness and without. It isn't something you can just will away. I wish it were. I feel for you and all with mental illnesses. It causes suffering I wish didn't have to happen. And with the right medication it doesn't. You can live a much more comfortable life.

I agree with the above that medication for mental illness is like a diabetic taking insulin. And luckily the outlook for medication is good. There are many new meds being developed with fewer and fewer side effects.

I also agree about the 2nd opinion. The person close to me was incorrectly diagnosed as bipolar by one doctor who wasn't very good. Turned out he just had clinicical depression with psychotic events.

If you do have bipolar it really is important to have medication. I woudln't want to take it, either, to be honest, but knowing what I know I would take it. I wonder if there are organizations in Australia for support of people like you. I hope so! Check out the NAMI.org web site for good info. I bet if you conctat them they can point you in the direction of good support in Australia.

I think that with the right medication you can more easily practice the power of NOW. :) Also, I noticed you said you are trying to stop your thoughts. Trying to stop them is going to keep them coming. Presence comes from *allowing* what is to be. I think your illness is a perfect thing to practice allowing and acceptance with and this practice can bring about great presence. Oftent times suffering like what you describe can be a great gift in this way. This is the case in my life--my biggest suffering is the biggest thing that pushed me to Eckhart Tolle's books and to conscious awareness of presence.

I wish you all the best and my support.

Also, even if there isn't a lot of spirituality where you live maybe you can find some others who have read ET's books? :) There may already be a support group in your area. check ET's web site--it lists support groups.

Best wishes,

Lisa
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Postby Nasir » Sun Nov 20, 2005 8:33 am

thankyou again for your responses> i went and got a couple more different oppinions and one doctor said i dont have bi polar i just have depression> and another doctor said i have anxiety disorder and they all offer me different medication> anyway these last two days ive let everything go and experienced some peace in my head> can you tell me can worry be a pain body i mean actually worrying feeling? this last day its like my ego wants my mind to run and go fast and label everything but its like my ego is locked up in handcuffs and im in this deep melowed feeling but i can feel one emotion which is worry but its not causeing me anxiety its just sitting with me and my mind is stoped like its not even labeling anything> is this my pain body? and what else i realized is all my thought patterns that i get that disable me to function are all worrying thoughts>so yeh my question is can worry be a pain body?
much love nasir
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Postby weopposedeception » Thu Nov 24, 2005 5:35 am

I have been through extremes of both depression and worry. Some of my mental problems are inherited I'm sure. You are born with a certain type of nervous system and that's the deal. Depression and alcoholism are closely related and often inherited together. As far as drugs, anitdepressants worked for me for a short period, then stopped working, then I got worse while they played around changing dosages or drugs. I am tapering off very gradually now, after 10yrs. I don't feel any worse, actually a little better. You cannot stop cold turkey. I believe the drugs were hampering my spiritual growth by masking or distorting my emotions. I felt like a robot when I was on them. This is all my opinion only, not meant as medical advice. One thing for sure, if you let them put you on any benzodiazepine type tranquilizers (valium,xanax,ativan,klonopin) you will become physically addicted and getting off is unbelievable hell. Many people can never get off at all because of the withdrawal.
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Postby Nasir » Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:05 pm

i was on zanax valiums and you do get addicted but i was on heroin too which is much worse to get off but i got off it all cold turkey but you are right with the antidepressants and stuff. I also felt like a robot when i was on them and i couldnt even walk normal i was literallly like a robot with no emotions.
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Postby be-lank » Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:59 pm

Perhaps an interesting note, soul brethren. In my experience medication has not stopped Presence from emerging. God does not seem to mind whether this body has xanex and other medications in it. An open channel is all that seems to be required. (Being able to be still, surrendering to this moment.)

Eckhart used the example of a small flower that grows in-between a narrow crack in concrete. And he compares this to Presence once the seed has sprouted. That it will grow regardless of the circumstances. And that this is irreversible. That once Presence starts to emerge, in essence, it has a life of its own. It does it by itself. And that no amount of resistance, even if that is medication, can keep Consciousness from flowering within us. (What us?)

Our job is to let it. To get out of the way. To allow and to accept and to be open and willing, as much as we can. But once it sprouts, it really doesn’t matter what we do. Once we get a glimpse of Space consciousness, it’s all she wrote. We can make it a lot tougher on ourselves. But either way, the ego is doomed. (Yippee!)
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Postby weopposedeception » Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:50 am

David Hawkins has an interesting theory on drugs and alcohol. I don't know if I completely believe in it, however. He claims that the "high" a person experiences is actually the joy of the Self, without the ego hindrances (pain-body). The person mistakenly attributes the joy to the drug itself, doesn't realize it was inside him all along. It is just that the drug numbs out the lower states that cloud off the the real joy of Self.
This theory doesn't account for the role of genetics in alcoholism. Also, the tremendous destruction caused by alcoholism doesn't sound much like the Self in action. Seems more like rocket fuel for the painbody.
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