Keeping an eye on my mind

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
proudlybeing
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Post by proudlybeing » Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:41 am

Hi everyone, , I,m probably going to annoy a few people here (i hope not),
My experience is quite different, and anyone who has been following my posts will probably be tired of me saying this, but here goes again, because i feel that it is an important part of this thread.

I had been living the basic 'concepts' of Et's work for approx, 18 years,
I have not use the word 'hate' in anger in this time, I felt no jeolosy, (although there were many times that I should have), for all of this time I have lived pretty much in the present when left to my own devices,
and i encouraged those around me to do so as well, this has been difficult for me in a lot of ways, because I was 'not normal' in a lot of the ways that i would react (or more accuratly wouldn't react) to people as others would. this had good and bad conitations, good in that people felt that they could talk to me and not be judged, and bad in other ways as I was , kinda well 'weird' , especially given the relative isolation of where I live,
the fact that I'm male, 6 foot tall and look like 'Shreks ugly brother' he he. (don't worry folks I Prefer my beauty on the inside).

The point here is I was not looking for anything, to me what is, just is,
I always had the the courage of my convictions, (although sometimes I could not explian why), In fact i was deliberatly avoiding spirtitualism, (my father is quite spiritual) because it scared the hell into me, although my Mother was a sunday school teacher, and I used to help the kids with their projects, and play guitar for the hymns etc, I always found too much negativity surounding the church and it's teachings.

I was interested to note that Kiki and others, talk of spending a lot of time with other spirtuallity teachings and meditation etc, and the comments about being rippened. I wonder whether this is a bit like,

I believe that it is in fact possible for some people to become 'enlightened ' through the feeding of the egoic mind, because they end up having everything that money can buy, and there is still no fullfillment, only then will they start to look elsewhere for answers , are they open, or 'ripe' ( as described by eyogateacher). E.t speaks of this in his a.n.e..

Of course I'm not comparing the journey of our wonderful kiki to that of a celebrity, but I wonder kiki, do you feel that there is some parralels here? i;e the search was slow and perhaps a little frustrating until you were introduced to Et ?.

I ask this because (again this is just me) for me simplicity is the absolute key to all this, yes , I consider myself very lucky to have been given this wonderful gift at such an early age, and i am humbled beyond words now that Et has been able to explain to me why my what is ' is'.

It saddens me to think that people need to go through so many channels, and spend so much time tc to recieve this wonderful 'gift' that was just given to me. (it also makes me appreciate it even more) ,
I wonder whether too much other information and or practices are just feeding the egoic mind more in the search for understanding.

I have never meditated, and don't know anything about other spirtitual teachings, i feel (at this point ) that I will not pursue this either as now that E.T has put everything into perspective for me I have nothing to search for. (this may change of course).

I only was introduced to E.t about 6 weeks ago by a phsycologist whom i had been seeing for some time, who had just started reading t.p.o.n., and said you must read this book, it is everything you have been talking about for the past year its 'you.' and boy was she right !!!

Whilst i can see that many people do need to take a long road to 'Being'
I would not like everyone to feel that it 'has to be' or 'will be' for them.

My simple advice, simple.

( I accept that this will annoy people who have been on a long path,and or who may even doubt my 'is'ness. this is all understandable).

bless you all.
P.B
My heart (and being) felt thanks to the force(es) than bring me to share this site and journey with you all.

cracklepop
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Post by cracklepop » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:18 am

I really appreciate the advice given here guys. Makes me realise I should’ve jumped on earlier.

Proudlybeing….it seems to me that you are talking about acceptance of thoughts and feelings, which seems to make it easier for them to simply pass through. I struggle with acceptance, don’t really know whether I am being accepting or what is considered non-acceptance at times.

Kiki…I will try your experiment. It too suggests acceptance of thoughts and feelings. Many of my negative thoughts seem to be fear-based, such as anxiety, worry and panic about possible situations, and I wonder whether I am fearful, or whether I worry about the worry on top of the fearful thoughts.

Being a follower instead of a leader also suggests a lack of doing. I find that watching my mind takes up a lot of energy and I know that this shouldn’t really be happening.

Finbarr…yes I am aware that thoughts cannot be stopped, it is more my reaction to those thoughts when they enter my awareness I think.

Does my reaction to my thoughts indicate non-acceptance? I do find it hard to know when I’m not accepting my thoughts and feelings. I do notice an extremely strong energy charge in my chest area when I have certain thoughts, but bringing my awareness to it does little. It just continues on and on and doesn’t dissipate at all as suggested by ET.

Anyway, much appreciate your advice.

proudlybeing
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acceptance

Post by proudlybeing » Sat Jun 30, 2007 3:54 am

Hi again cracklepop,

I guess what I mean here regarding acceptance, is that I accept have an egoic mind, and that it is normal to have one, therefore it's quite ok to think and feel freely with this mind, so I don't resist the thoughts, I just just try to be the 'watcher', often by doing this I begin to laugh out loud because of the silly things the egoic mind will have me believe, and has made me believe in the past. By doing this the thoughts are allowed to 'pass through' and something that may be destructive if allowed to run it's 'egoic course' now is a pleasant experience. this will take practice my friend, but it sure works for me.

(Also 1 great bonus to all this is that because you don't judge yourself, as you realise that it's just the egoic mind speaking, It almost becomes hard to judge others,( particually as you realise that most people only have their egoic minds to work with.) When working with Clients (counciling) this is a great tool, because I can allow my egoic mind to
take in the information, and then watch how my egoic mind reacts to the imformation( i;e my thoughts and feelings ), then allow my 'presence ' to normalise the situation, and (hopefully help the client).

Bless you and all you care about

P.B
My heart (and being) felt thanks to the force(es) than bring me to share this site and journey with you all.

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Post by kiki » Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:24 am

Nice post pb.
but I wonder kiki, do you feel that there is some parralels here? i;e the search was slow and perhaps a little frustrating until you were introduced to Et ?.
I had gotten to the point where I was about to give it all up. It seemed to be an endless search and I didn't know which way to go anymore; I had done so much and yet I didn't feel any closer to the goal I had in mind. It just seemed fruitless, although there were moments deep peace and experiences of great beauty, but they never lasted. That's when I bumped into ET.

The concept of letting it all go came from my reading of him and at first I didn't really want to do that because I had invested so much time already on the "path". To let go of my core practice, meditation, was a bit disconcerting at first because so much of my identity was invested in it - I prided myself in being a strong "meditator".

But then I saw how that very identification was an obstruction, so I decided to take a chance and see what would happen if I did let it go and just remain present with what is. To my astonishment the silence of meditation remained, the peace I felt was no longer found to be dependent upon any practice. I was "meditating" all day long. In other words, I found that my natural state of awareness was what I had sought through all those other practices and I actually didn't have to "do" anything to "get it".

The simplicity of what I am then asserted itself in a more conscious way so that I could see easily when mind/ego re-emerged.
proudlybeing wrote:The point here is I was not looking for anything, to me what is, just is,

For me "what is" wasn't enough, and that's what kept the search going. I was looking for mystical experiences, profound experiences relative to the regular experience of everyday life. I felt that they would make me special, not only in my own mind but in the mind of others - how egoic it all was. And part (most) of my misunderstanding of the nature of enlightenment was due to putting trust in others' description of what it meant to be enlightened. I didn't know any better and simply went along with what my first real teacher said. In those days there wasn't much else out there and it was just too easy to go along with what was being fed into my mind.

I bought it hook, line, and sinker but when I saw myself no closer after quite a few years I started searching other things until I pretty much ran the gamut of what was out there. That continued for years until, as I mentioned previously, I was about to abandon it all. Is that being "ripe"? I suppose it can be argued that it is. But then there are those where no definable search is pursued and they wake up for no particular reason, it just happened.

So, this begs the question: Would I have been better off without the search? Would I have awakened sooner had I understood clearly just what "enlightenment" was? I don't really know. I had read Ramana, Krishnamurti, Osho but what I read didn't make sense and it didn't match up with what had been internalized through the ideas of the one I took to be my teacher. Perhaps I needed to see for myself the futility of searching by the search itself - I'm sure I must have read that before in all my years, but there was a stubborn streak in my ego that insisted that I experience it. I'm sure there are people who don't need to go through all that I did, as in ET's case and our own pb here on the board.

So now my feeling is this: Follow a practice if it gives comfort but don't think that awakening requires any particular practice. Don't be afraid to let go of what has been comforting because being awake isn't about what is comfortable, it's about knowing what you are. And you don't have to "purify" yourself to know what you are - buying into that mindset is just another egoic strategy to delay waking up. You are, whether you are conscious of that or not - there can be no denial of that. Being conscious of your true essence comes to some and not to others, but if it comes to you that doesn't make you any more special than anyone else because in both cases there is no one there in reality.

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watershed

Post by proudlybeing » Sat Jun 30, 2007 8:38 am

Kiki, Thankyou so much for sharing that with us, You have no idea
how much that post has effected me, (all good) , I am typing through a vail of (joyfull ) tears at this point, The last three lines especially (re not being special ) is i think something that I've needed to hear for a long time, (this may sound a bit crazy to some)
but I am often asked ' why do you know just what to say' by people in need of a little comfort, amoung other things and of course, thats something I could not give an answer to. I do now of course know why I am able to do that, (after E.T)

I was a little concerned that readers of this thread may become disheartened if their journeys were taking a long time, and they may 'give up'. but please do give it all the time it needs, whether it be made simpler, or you do need to go on searching far and wide, it is within you and is worth the journey.

Thankyou again Kiki, you wisdom is treasured by us all

(even more) PROUDLYBEING :D
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hold on to the life saver

Post by weichen » Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:45 pm

I feel the same, KiKi and PB.

"This little me is not special regardless of his accomplishment" is like a piece of wood to a drowning person. I feel warm and secure with my hands firmly hold on to this life-saver.

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Post by eseward » Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:37 pm

cracklepop wrote:I wonder whether I am fearful, or whether I worry about the worry on top of the fearful thoughts.
Vernon Howard said you have never been afraid, angry, depressed. You could no more be any of these things than an angel could be impure. The key is in the word you.

You may have identified with these feelings and the thoughts that caused them as they occurred within you, but that does not make you these things. A screen in a movie theater is never harmed in any way by a movie being played, no matter how violent or frightening the movie is.

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Re: acceptance

Post by eseward » Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:41 pm

proudlybeing wrote:I accept [that I] have an egoic mind, and that it is normal to have one, therefore it's quite ok to think and feel freely with this mind, so I don't resist the thoughts, I just try to be the 'watcher', often by doing this I begin to laugh out loud because of the silly things the egoic mind will have me believe, and has made me believe in the past. By doing this the thoughts are allowed to 'pass through' and something that may be destructive if allowed to run it's 'egoic course' now is a pleasant experience. this will take practice my friend, but it sure works for me.
Outstanding post, pb. Beautifully said. It works for me as well.

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Post by Finbarr » Sat Jun 30, 2007 9:30 pm

eseward wrote:
cracklepop wrote:I wonder whether I am fearful, or whether I worry about the worry on top of the fearful thoughts.
Vernon Howard said you have never been afraid, angry, depressed. You could no more be any of these things than an angel could be impure. The key is in the word you.

You may have identified with these feelings and the thoughts that caused them as they occurred within you, but that does not make you these things. A screen in a movie theater is never harmed in any way by a movie being played, no matter how violent or frightening the movie is.
Excellent post eseward :D I particularly like the analogy of the movie screen

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Post by deep82 » Sun Jul 01, 2007 3:44 am

Being conscious of your true essence comes to some and not to others, but if it comes to you that doesn't make you any more special than anyone else because in both cases there is no one there in reality.
Isn't there the consciousness of each individual there in reality?

Sorry if im not understanding this fully :oops:.

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Post by kiki » Sun Jul 01, 2007 5:53 am

kiki wrote:Being conscious of your true essence comes to some and not to others, but if it comes to you that doesn't make you any more special than anyone else because in both cases there is no one there in reality.
deep82 wrote:Isn't there the consciousness of each individual there in reality?
Everyone/thing is consciousness as form; how the underlying pure consciousness expresses is unique to each individual. Within each individual "person", consciousness is aware, illuminating the content of the mind - objects "out there", and sensations and feelings "inside" the individual. That content, for the large majority of people, overshadows consciousness itself. In other words, attention (which is focused consciousness) rests on the forms of consciousness so that the underlying formless nature of pure consciousness is missed.

Waking up means realizing that the individual that was taken to be "me" was only a form arising within the formless pure nature of consciousness - the authentic "You". That "me" that arises is comprised soley of ideas that are identified with. There is no "me" that is separate and distinct from anything else. In this awakening, that formless consciousness is no longer overshadowed by the forms which arise within it. In other words, consciousness becomes aware of itself and it is realized that That is what you are in actuality.

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Post by Webwanderer » Sun Jul 01, 2007 6:43 am

deep82 wrote:Isn't there the consciousness of each individual there in reality?
Hello deep82, I offer my take on your question.

It’s wise to remember that when it comes to spoken language context is king. That being said there is a distinction one might make between awareness and consciousness that is helpful in our intellectual understanding of the nature of form.

Awareness is fundamental to being. Awareness is Divine life itself. Awareness is essential and universal; and the entire world of form exists as content within it.

Consciousness, on the other hand, is more related to perspective and to a lesser degree focus. Each set of eyes, or more accurately senses, offers awareness a unique perspective on being from within the world of form. In some cases, such as the human form, there is a perspective based on the capacity for memory, imagination and volition, which creates the potential for individualized personality that can choose to see itself as separate from other similar (and dissimilar) perspectives(forms).

Other forms have perspective within awareness as well, but do not have the same capacity for self awareness based on distinctive human mental attributes. This type of multifaceted conscious perspective offers Divine Awareness the opportunity for intimacy of experience through the infinite possibilities of interaction between forms.

Understand that intellectual understanding, while helpful if there is a genuine desire to know, can well be just another mental vortex to get sucked into. Perspective changes and evolves throughout ones human life, and it may become clear or muddy depending upon the type and degree of identification with beliefs and concepts that are held within the individual mind.

Awakening is to choose to act in such a way (following the many pointers offered), that clarity of being is enhanced. In any case, all choices are but content, and Awareness remains unchanged.

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Post by cracklepop » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:31 am

Wow kiki thanks for sharing. Your words are insightful and inspiring. I guess I hadn't even considered my thoughts to be beliefs. It's true there are thoughts I know they're there, but I can't quite catch them, they are not clear to me yet.

Anyway, the past few days I have working on accepting those thoughts, just allowing them to be there, and it has made me notice how much I haven't been accepting them. Like when they arise, I get frustrated that I'm having them, etc. Presence is a wonderful thing.

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Post by suraj » Mon Jul 02, 2007 12:30 pm

How funny that everybody has a story to tell about they found ET and TPON. Even I have one :)
A couple of years ago , after I had packed my things and heading home after finishing my College , I stopped by a book store. At that time , I had reached the brink ! 'Nothing worse can happen to me' - so confident was I. Only 1 book stood out at the 'Self-Help' section of the Bookstore - TPON and I bought it promptly. Previously I had mostly read books by Indian Gurus like - Paramahansa Yogananda and Swami Rama which profundly influenced me , but they didn't provide answers to all the 'Why' questions.
Well, I reached home and opened the book and there began the most 'thrilling literary adventure' of my life(I read this phrase elsewhere).
For a couple of days , I didn't know how I lived. In the midst of eating , I saw clearly , there is something within me which doesn't like to be at the place where I was eating.
The day I bought the book , I remember as clearly as my birthday .
I AM

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Post by eseward » Mon Jul 02, 2007 5:00 pm

Great story, suraj. Thanks much for sharing. :)

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