Is the use of prayer dead now?

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Goldenflutist
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Is the use of prayer dead now?

Post by Goldenflutist » Tue Jul 03, 2007 8:58 pm

This many sound like a profoundly stupid question, but I work in an environment where people tend to speak and pray a lot for each other. What place do I hold now in this group? What can I do when someone says, "Will you pray for me?" I have never felt prayer had any efficacy, but still did it because everyone else in my orbit thought it was of value. Of course that was before my recent enlightenment. Now I feel there is nothing to pray to anymore.

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Re: Is the use of prayer dead now?

Post by JD » Tue Jul 03, 2007 9:15 pm

Goldenflutist wrote:Now I feel there is nothing to pray to anymore.
You can pray to the people who've asked you to pray for them. In fact, that's the best and most effective way to pray.

Properly understood, intercessory prayer - that is, prayer for the benefit of others - is simply the creation of healing, positive thought-forms. In my experience such prayers can have a very powerful and profound effect on the recipient.

No belief in anything else is required. :D

Devotional prayer is another matter, but that's not what you're asking about.

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Still lost

Post by Goldenflutist » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:07 pm

Sorry JD, I don't get it. I have been stuck in the tradition of God and Christ as spiritual beings that live up in heaven and listen to prayers from the poor souls still laboring on this planet. I have never felt comfortable with understanding of "God" but had not other teacher to point to something else until now. I don't know what I would actually be "doing" now if I were to try to pray. Before it was like talking to someone with the power to do something and hoping is was aligned with his "will". I have lost the ability to think that way now. Thus, not knowing what prayer would be for me and how it can be healing.

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Re: Still lost

Post by JD » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:36 pm

Goldenflutist wrote: I don't know what I would actually be "doing" now if I were to try to pray. Before it was like talking to someone with the power to do something and hoping is was aligned with his "will". I have lost the ability to think that way now. Thus, not knowing what prayer would be for me and how it can be healing.
You've said that you're "enlightened" - isn't that enough?

My understanding of "enlightenment" is the realization that everything - including all powers and beings - are contained within your essential nature.

Therefore, the power to heal and help others is in you - and indeed, in everyone.

Send healing thoughts to others and they'll surely have an effect.

Why do you need to believe in some extraneous "God"?

As you "can't think that way" any more, you really only have two options: Believe in yourself or believe in nothing at all.

When someone asks: Pray for me, close your eyes and see them happy and positive, surrounded by brilliant white light.

Or tell them you can't pray for them as you no longer believe in God.

But if that's the case, then what use is being enlightened? :D

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Post by Goldenflutist » Tue Jul 03, 2007 10:50 pm

When someone asks: Pray for me, close your eyes and see them happy and positive, surrounded by brilliant white light.
:idea:

Okay, the above quote is the answer I needed. That will be my way of praying from now on. Thank you so much for giving me this valuable tool.
:)
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Post by JD » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:23 am

Goldenflutist wrote: Okay, the above quote is the answer I needed. That will be my way of praying from now on. Thank you so much for giving me this valuable tool.
You've always had it. :D

Incidentally, a major difference between this kind of praying/healing and the kind of prayer in which you ask God to help someone, is that this kind of prayer creates a powerful thought-form that will be of great benefit to you, the creator, as well as to the person for whom it was created (and to whom it will automatically go).

Everybody wins. :)

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Of course but....

Post by Goldenflutist » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:39 am

Yes I may have always had it, but when you have been stuck in the thought pattern for years of the Christian/Jewish view of God and how to communicate, you don't see things like that. You gave me some valuable insight that was not clear to me until I saw it typed out. I am grateful that you are a member of this forum and that you responded. :)

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Post by proudlybeing » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:49 am

Hello all,
My dear old Dad , the only thing he would ever tell us
in regard to religion, was , "you just need to believe in something"
now, he is quite spiritual, but never pushed his ideas onto anyone,
as he believes (as do I) that when people are ready they will begin their own journeys. And It will be different for everyone,

So prayer too i feel , should be a personal thing, I do not pray to an image of an old bearded man, or any other label etc,
I would describe it as feeling my 'god' from within and all around, and in everyone and everything, so I can pray for you all to my 'god' (for want of a better term) knowing that it's only my version if you like.
That does not mean that I place my 'god' above anyone elses, as each individuals should be personal and is equal. Also the lack of ridgidity in this approach means that I can change the way I view my god at any time, remaining flexable and non judgemental,

As we know we are all talking about the one supreme 'power' that
'is' it will always mean different things to different poeople at different times of their lives, so I would suggest Just go with what 'feels' right for
You and if possible , be flexible.

bless you all P.B
My heart (and being) felt thanks to the force(es) than bring me to share this site and journey with you all.

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Re: Of course but....

Post by JD » Wed Jul 04, 2007 12:52 am

Goldenflutist wrote: You gave me some valuable insight that was not clear to me until I saw it typed out. I am grateful that you are a member of this forum and that you responded. :)
It was my pleasure, GF. :)

But I should perhaps stress that I'm only speaking from my personal experience. Others may have equally valid beliefs and opinions on the matter of prayer that are very different from those expressed in my replies.

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Yes they might

Post by Goldenflutist » Wed Jul 04, 2007 1:02 am

yes others might have valid ideas, but you were one of the few who responded. I take that as maybe an indication that the wisdom inside of your essence needed to convey that idea to mine because it was the one that I would be able to grasp most fully. Again, thank you. It has given me a lot of peace.
8)
GF
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Post by anton » Sun Jul 15, 2007 10:02 pm

perhap the best prayer is to be totally still now. Thru the presense of your total stillness now, the entire universe is transformed now. so yes, in this way, you're praying for your friend and rest of creation who happens to be around. :D or is this my wishful thinking?

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Prayer and The Art of Presence

Post by eileen » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:14 am

John O'Donohue in Wisdom From the Celtic World (CD's) defines PRAYER as The Art of Presence.

John O'Donohue is an Irish poet, author, and Catholic scholar who lives in the solitude of a cottage in the West of Ireland and speaks Gaelic as his daily language. His acclaimed writings reveal an original thinker rooted in an unorthodox blend of Irish heritage, German philosophy, western theology, and an intimate relationship with the wild, luminous landscape of his home.

ninjin

Post by ninjin » Mon Jul 16, 2007 9:29 am

Don't really know what type of prayer you are talking about but there has been research done on how prayer affects sick people.
If those who prayed told the sick person that they were gonna pray for him/her he/she was put under a lot of pressure and didn't heal as well as those that people didn't pray for, the control group. The reason that they felt pressure was that they got the pressure of proving Gods existence. If they didn't survive there was no god as so on.
There was no improvement on those person that people prayed for without he/she knowing about it. No difference in comparison to the control group.

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No surprise

Post by Goldenflutist » Mon Jul 16, 2007 5:32 pm

ninjin wrote
Don't really know what type of prayer you are talking about but there has been research done on how prayer affects sick people.
I think this is one of the most valid points I have ever read on traditional prayer, and it makes good sense.

From the crowd I came from long ago, if someone became ill, everyone got together to send up what they would call an intercessory prayer for the sick person, or the person in need of something. They would use phrases like "storming the gates of heaven" etc. My perception of this is that they were imagining during their prayer of asking an actual supernatural being (the god we see in movies) to provide the healing.

For me growing up, I never understood this and never did. I always used to think in my child's mind, if God loved everyone, why did we have to ask him for help in the first place? The entire thing sounded so ridiculous to me.

I had never seen evidence that prayer ever worked. If the person didn't get better, then it was "God's Will". If they did get better, God had saved that person, never mind that they used every medical option available just in case God decided not to intervene.

Of course what about 'Mr. Smith’s" little girl who died anyway? Did God just not get enough prayers to make the attempt to answer it? I think you can see how asinine that is.

The only viable idea of prayer I have now is thinking in my mind of peace and acceptance for the person in need. What are your thoughts?
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Post by seeker » Tue Jul 17, 2007 10:32 pm

It sounds like you and I come from the same kind of background. I no longer have much to do with that group although some have remained friends.

I am fairly new to Eckhart Tolle's teaching and I'm not enlightened, however, if Being is one or, all things are interconnected or how ever we wish to say it, praying makes perfect sense; not praying to a particular being with an existence outside the cosmos (as you say, in heaven) but as one of the others said earlier, bringing positive thoughts or energy toward that person with your mind, or like another said, picture them bathed in white light.

If all things are connected, being still allows you access to the power that lies within, which is Being; I think that's the power of Now. Why can't it be used for another's benefit? Maybe it's a matter of learning how to use it.

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