Do night dreams reveal our true level of consciousness?

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Goldenflutist
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Do night dreams reveal our true level of consciousness?

Post by Goldenflutist » Sun Jul 22, 2007 9:28 pm

I was wondering if anyone who has felt that their unconscious dreams still reveal the same old egoic mind patterns that used to keep them prisoner in the waking hours?

I am finding that to be the case with me. So many of my fears play out using the same pathetic egoic arguments I used to use before. :(

It seems at night when I sleep and the dream world takes over, I am the same pathetic unconscious person I was before Tolle’s teachings.


GF
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Post by kiki » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:36 pm

It seems at night when I sleep and the dream world takes over, I am the same pathetic unconscious person I was before Tolle’s teachings.
That night time character is no more real than the daytime dream character, so what's to worry about? The implication from your situation is that both characters are real when in fact neither are.

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Post by Webwanderer » Sun Jul 22, 2007 10:57 pm

It seems like the old argument "I want to learn patience, and I want to learn it right now!" Conventional psychology says that our lifelong personality patterns are set by two to four years of age. If indeed that is the way it is for most of us (my experience says this is generally so), then the brain/mind is designed this way and is the conditions we must live with.

It is easy to see, with the patterns that exist from such an early age, and the intractable nature of such long established concepts of life, that such patterns would be rather resilient. What has changed, from our recognition of presence in now, is our conscious ability to let go of the conceptual story that attracts and traps us now, in this moment, and allows us to return to an open acceptance of what is.

Now, does that necessarily mean that one instantly turns into a saint? Hardly, but watching the grass grow can become tedious as well. Last time I looked my grass looks like it did when I went to the mail box an hour ago. However when I consider the change over the last week, it's starting to look a little shaggy. But then the tree in my yard seems the same for several years now. Does that mean it's not growing? I think not.

Old patterns desolve at their own pace. It is our egoic attachments that presses for speed in change. Some patterns may not change in this lifetime. It's okay. What matters most is one's shift in perspective from attachment to those patterns to observer of them.

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Post by Agnieszka » Sun Jul 22, 2007 11:06 pm

Goldenflutist, your dog's eyes have some deep wisdom, they're so serious and calm. Or so it seems to me.

Coming to the dreams, I'm not worrying about fears and the ego stuff which is sometimes present in my dreams, but I feel uneasy with the numerous "worlds" I dream about :D at night. I'm worried a little that
(I know I'm being childish) after departing from this world I will go to one of those (not frightening at all, just like this one; alternative realities?), instead finally becoming "pure consciousness". And I don't want to, I'm fed up with this one.
I used to have lots of typical "ego-dreams" in the past, e.g. when during waking hours I was feeling "abused" by everybody, sort of mother Teresa surrounded by ungrateful people. I played it out in the dream, the story was usually sooo gloomy and, as in many dreams, abounding in symbology.
It was wonderful to see how it fit together with my POP therapy sessions (Process Oriented Psychology is great for interpreting the dreams).

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Post by Goldenflutist » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:00 am

All of these comments are helping a lot. Thank you WebW and Agnie..

When Web said I was being impatient, he hit the nail on the head in my waking hours.

I keep having the same pathetic dreams of abandonment. I have been working on accepting what is in several areas of my life without complaining and seeing myself as a victim of life's evil circumstances.

I just take every opportunity when I would get upset about something not going the way I wanted it to go, and bring presence to that moment.

I just could not understand why in my sleep world, I am playing out just the opposite in dreams! It is like my brain is saying to me, “If you are not going to act this out on a conscious level, then we will do it when you have no control at all.”
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Post by Webwanderer » Mon Jul 23, 2007 1:48 am

I used to have recurring dreams of threatening alligators. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they were related to my relationships with women and my resistance to certain issues. They went on for years. Finally I accepted that my attitude was not going to change and that I could live with things as they were. Surprise, surprise the alligator dreams went away. It wasn't long until the issues disappeared as well.

So it boiled down to the reality that the dreams were not caused by the issues, but by my resistance to them.

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Post by Goldenflutist » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:10 am

recurring dreams of threatening alligators. It didn't take a rocket scientist to figure out they were related to my relationships with women and my resistance to certain issues
I did not see that analogy at all. I don't understand how you made the connection between alligators and women. I am practicing non-resistance in life where the abandonment issue is concerned, but right now there is no one to do any abandoning! :o

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Re: Do night dreams reveal our true level of consciousness?

Post by JD » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:15 am

Goldenflutist wrote:I was wondering if anyone who has felt that their unconscious dreams still reveal the same old egoic mind patterns that used to keep them prisoner in the waking hours?

I am finding that to be the case with me. So many of my fears play out using the same pathetic egoic arguments I used to use before.
Hi, GF. :)

This is an indication of success and nothing to worry about at all.

When you become conscious enough to avoid energizing the "same old egoic mind patterns" (which are really a complex of thought-forms), during your waking hours, the first thing that happens is that they become starved of energy.

The second thing that happens is that they begin to appear in your dream life in an attempt to gain energy from your mind when you have less control over it.

Their success in this endeavour can be gauged by the fact that you're giving them energy right now by worrying about them and creating threads in their honour (although I understand why, of course). :)

Those "egoic mind patterns" are not you. They don't mean that you're a bad person. Don't identify with them.

And as Webwanderer said, don't resist them. That gives them energy and perpetuates their existence.

I find it helpful to visualize myself inside an egg of brilliant white light as I'm going to sleep. As I'm doing that I make a strong wish (which automatically creates a thought-form) that the light will surround me for as long as I'm asleep, and that that only beautiful and positive thought-forms can appear in my dreams.

It works. :D

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Post by Webwanderer » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:26 am

Goldenflutest wrote:I did not see that analogy at all. I don't understand how you made the connection between alligators and women.
Goldenflutist, I'm not trying to make a specific analogy to your circumstances other than dreams are often caused by emotional responses to circumstances, and not by the circumstances themselves.

My dreams of alligators had nothing to do with women; they had everything to do with my resistance to circumstances involving women. Women have always been dear beings who were (and are), close to my heart. In my early days of new age concepts, I bought into a belief about proper behaviors that were in conflict with natural tendencies.

I know, curiosities are running wild. What I bought into was that celebacy was the/a path to enlightenment. Turned out to be nonsence, at least for me, but I walked that path for some time. I laugh now at some of the foolishness that I engaged in in my efforts to attain higher consciousness.

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LOL

Post by Goldenflutist » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:55 am

What I bought into was that celibacy was the/a path to enlightenment
Reminds me of a story

I and a friend of mine were discussing celibacy and religion. My friend was horrified at the idea of celibacy even for priests since she adores men. Her comment was, "If all men practiced celibacy, we women would really be screwed!" I chimed in with, "No, I think the opposite would happen!" and we all had a good laugh. So I am not always so dense. :lol:

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Post by summer » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:09 am

Hi there, Golden Flutist,

My latest idea about dreams is that the mind is one heck of a busy critter. It thinks all day long, and then at night it dreams a lot.

I know that many people place a lot of significence in dreams. It goes back to the Freudian and Jungian interpretations of human psychology.

Still, my latest idea is that interpreting dreams is just more thinking about dreams. Which of course keeps the mind even busier.

Just breathe, relax and enjoy this moment. None of our thoughts are really that important. Unless we give them a lot of attention.

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Good answer!

Post by Goldenflutist » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:48 am

Hi summer

Very wise words summer. That is why I need this forum! I would be back to my old ways if I didn't pop in here for moral support and guidance from some amazing people. :)

Namaste,
GF
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Post by OnlyNow » Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:36 am

Goldenflutist

what JD said
When the Pupil is ready the Master appears

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Post by old dead wood » Thu Jul 26, 2007 3:56 pm

In my dreams, same-as-waking-life scenarios and worries play out. However, there are times in dreams when a heart-felt feeling can be more profound, primordial, familiar, and "home"-like than ANYTHING in real life. Swooning ecstasies can occur. Intense emotional connections take place. The events that transpire, even if on-the-surface mimic daily life activities, can at the same time feel like another more authentic life than I live in the waking world. One example: I was gazing at a row of "blocks", and each block represented a particular past year. The number system for the years was not in our normal numbering system. As I focused on each particular "block", I "remembered" that particular year's events, moods, flavors, and feelings (couldn't recall specifics upon waking). This "life" FELT to be more genuine than any memories of my waking life. All of this may be only the activation of the "circuits" in my brain, just as a schizophrenic may KNOW that the TV is sending him / her signals from the planet Mars, etc.

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