It's pioneer stuff !

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
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Shion
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It's pioneer stuff !

Post by Shion » Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:24 am

Well, hello dear friends and thank you a lot for this forum ! My first post.
Please illuminate me on this issue.

Teachers of today are putting all their emphasis on waking up to your true nature, ego is illusion of the mind, blablabla but...!
One thing is being forgotten ! They don't describe one's likely consequent practical actions that would follow after the realization !

"You are looking for God with his own eyes..."
Oh yeah so true and yet can't heal ! What about our actions in our contexts ?
The daily relations with others ?(who are still on the neanderthal level and not interested to understand).
They say it's easy but it's obviously not because of our social contexts !
As awakened, you are going to be different, everybody will notice, you will cause a lot of impacts, how many are ready for such destiny ?
This is not an awakening happening on a awakened planet in a awakened humanity ! It's pioneer stuff !

And what about how humanity is supposed to act with the condition of the Earth today ? Maybe those teachers know that this planet is going to cease to be like we know it today anyway, so they don't speak about what's needed to do ?

Nobody is saying be green, recycle, save the earth, eat vegetarian (far easier actions).
People at greenpeace are maybe not enlightened or maybe yes, but such foundations today are more needed than kundalini and silence retreats.
People that gave their heart for a fight don't have time to spend on waiting for an awakening as eventually, this seems to be a quite a long process for most of seekers.

I mean, tell me what is the need of a Ramana Maharshi whose actions are like to stop to feed his body so that others have to bother about ?
Why teachers are spared from working out their backbones but can live with the money of the seekers ?

We need people developing stuff like solar energy and intruders in the elites, not enlightened beings sitting on the public benches.

I know from which point of view I chose to speak here, but I did it to ignite this discussion, so don't get me wrong. I speak on behalf of my parents and grandparents especially. And I'm alone, very alone, if not for the bless of the internet.

As a conclusive sentence I say, give me a hut in the mountain, energy and unlimited food and water and I can show to everybody that to be present, do yoga, circulate prana and find God is nothing difficult !
There is nothing more natural !

Cheers ! And for those of you who are rich, don't need to go to work and have such a hut in the mountain, stop begging for spirituality, I kick your ass, realize now !
And if you are powerful or you are Bill Gates I kick your ass too 'cause you have to do more !

Shion

ninjin

Post by ninjin » Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:20 pm

Well if the teachers do not live as they teach they aren't worth listening to.
Ramana never said that they was to feed him In that culture some people took it upon them selves to feed yogas and such thinking that that would give them better karma and whatnot.
Solving world issues isn't really difficult.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/62

Added
Also stop drinking bottled water. Westerners have no need for bottled water and its just plain stupidity to drink it. Causes a lot of harm and costs a lot more and doesn't even taste better.

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Post by weichen » Sun Aug 19, 2007 3:51 pm

Eckhart's bank account reached 0 just when he finished TPON. In a way, this is fair, he got paid with very little money because he helped only small number of people during the first 10 years of being a spiritual teacher. Through TPON, he helped milions of people, so he deserved millions of dollars.


The time (many hours) people spent in reading TPON is worth hundreds of dollars (a lot more than the $15 book price), the benefit from reading the book is probably worth thousands of dollars (better health, higher energy, better relationship, more creative). Eckhart made less than 1 dollar from every book, the bulk of the money goes to the publisher, retailers and postal service.

ninjin

Post by ninjin » Sun Aug 19, 2007 6:17 pm

it costs 1$ or less per person to give the entire world clean water.
Education costs a little more and so on.
Buying TPON do not help that much people. There are no instructions in the book. No one will get realised by following TPON.

OT
My teacher sold 2*300 page physics books for 100Kr i think thats about 14dollars or less. He had the stupid idea that knowledge shouldn't cost that much. No one profited from the books either and they were the best books I've read on the subject.
You don't need publishers, managers and fancy stuff to make good readable books. Heck I make my own books at home.

PS
You can't value time in cash. If they skip work to read the book then you can otherwise its just fantasy.

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Post by kiki » Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:06 pm

ninjin wrote:Buying TPON do not help that much people.
On what do you base this statement? How is it that you have this knowledge of how many people have been helped?
There are no instructions in the book.
What little instruction there is is in the form of what ET calls portals, which leads to where no instructions are necessary. If awakening were the result of an "instruction" manual there would be lots of realized people by now. Where does this idea of needing "instruction" come from?

The whole point of PON is to get beyond where "instructions" have relevance, beyond the mind.
No one will get realised by following TPON.
Again, how is this known by you?

It seems you have some very definite ideas of how things shouldn't be in terms of the awakening process, which implies you have ideas on how they should be. Why don't you share them with us here?

Have they worked for you? Lay out the framework of the awakening process as it unfolded for you. Or is that framework conceptual only, and if so how's it working out for you? Have you gained a sense of peace, a sense of wholeness, a sense of unity from those ideas or other approaches? What instruction manual would you recommend?

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Post by Seancho » Sun Aug 19, 2007 10:28 pm

What is the root cause of all these problems?

Fear.

Fearful people living desparate lives. Greed, war, evironmental destruction. These are the actions of afraid people. People living a nightmare in which they are desparately competing for survival.

We are afraid.

All these teachers, the ones we talk about here, have one resounding message, repeated again and again -- all is well. Fear is not real. Find out what you really are, and there is nothing to be afraid of. Fear becomes meaningless. We can relax.

Until we see that, everything we do is done by fear. Every attempt to solve a problem just makes more problems. And the madness on this planet will continue.

When we recognize that we are afraid, really see it, and finally stop believing in that fear, then there is love. We are love. And as love we can solve any problem effortlessly.
If you stop believing in fear, is it still scary?

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Post by eseward » Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:37 pm

Beautifully said, Seancho. Thanks.

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Post by Webwanderer » Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:53 pm

Shion wrote:Please illuminate me on this issue.

Teachers of today are putting all their emphasis on waking up to your true nature, ego is illusion of the mind, blablabla but...!
One thing is being forgotten ! They don't describe one's likely consequent practical actions that would follow after the realization !
The tone of your inquirey seems to speak more to your skepticism than to a genuine desire to understand the benefits of awakening to ones true nature.

Have I mischaractorized your intent? If so then your intent is not clear.

As for the rest of your post, it seems you have come here to point out our time would be much better spent following your ideas of correcting the worlds problems than wasting our time gaining clarity on the nature of life.
Why teachers are spared from working out their backbones but can live with the money of the seekers ?

We need people developing stuff like solar energy and intruders in the elites, not enlightened beings sitting on the public benches.
Why do you find it necessary to be so critical of those who share their understanding of life with others? Unlike governments and political groups they do not force their ideology on others. Ask yourself if you really want to understand, or is it you want more people on the bandwagon of your version of a proper world.

ninjin

Post by ninjin » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:07 am

Self help industry is one huge market. Those who buy TPON has bought other books and will continure to buy other books because TPON do not help anything. There are no instructions in the book.
Just reading about the painbody of which no one really has any idea what it is do not help you. If you want instructions and stuff you have to go to other and better sources than ET.
I only see ET as a pointer to the good stuff. It introduces the goal to the masses but do not help them get there.

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Post by kiki » Mon Aug 20, 2007 3:53 am

ninjin wrote:If you want instructions and stuff you have to go to other and better sources than ET.
I would like to know what sources you find beneficial.
I only see ET as a pointer to the good stuff. It introduces the goal to the masses but do not help them get there.
What's the "good stuff"? And on what do you base your statement that people aren't helped to "get there"?
Those who buy TPON has bought other books and will continure to buy other books because TPON do not help anything.
If that's your experience I guess it must be everyone else's as well, is that what you're saying? I don't know how you can possibly make such a blanket statement except out of anger that you haven't "got it".

Can you lay aside conditions and prejudices and simply be here consciously? Can you lay aside storylines about yourself and others and be present? Can you lay aside ideas about how anything should or shouldn't be? Can you sense the observing consciousness behind all of your thoughts and ideas about enlightenment? I feel you are making out enlightenment to be more than it is, which only sets you up for disappointment.

If you have found a simpler, easier way to realize what you are I invite you to share what you have found. You would be doing people a service by cluing in all of those deluded by ET and others like him.

ninjin

Post by ninjin » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:47 am

I don't feel any anger or resentment and such. What I write do not come from prejudice. Make a poll about it. from what i've learn during my short existence is that most people like 9/10 read stuff and then go on to read the other stuff never actually doing that which is written down.
I wrote about the good stuff and I remarked on the statements in question that won't help people get there.

I haven't got a clue what enlightenment is. Just that it can be reached.
Nothing I have written in this thread or any other threads are about enlightened being. I have written about the pointers and the brain. that is all. well have written about greed also.

The point I'm making is that there is no easy way. There are no ways, god ways and bad ways. ant, monkey, bird and some other way which I cant remember.
Do any of you actually read what I'm writing and the articles to which I point?
And again I have in my previous posts pointed towards other teachers, texts, homepages and courses that can help in finding a teacher.
Have also pointed towards texts that is good to read inorder to remove the gloria that some put on various teachers.
I myself is taking the path of zen and tao.

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Post by phoggy » Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:51 am

ninjin wrote:Do any of you actually read what I'm writing and the articles to which I point?.
So you expect her to go through each and every one of your posts.....ahem...ramblings....(sorry I couldn't help it)...... to find what she is asking for?

-Silvia-

ninjin

Post by ninjin » Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:58 am

Look whose awakened. What different from my ramblings from others? Because I don't speak the same language? I don't give praise to everyone?

Also I thought I was writing in a different thread when referencing other articles and posts.
http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... 4&start=15

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Re: It's pioneer stuff !

Post by aanwezigheid » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:09 pm

Shion wrote:Cheers ! And for those of you who are rich, don't need to go to work and have such a hut in the mountain, stop begging for spirituality, I kick your ass, realize now !
And if you are powerful or you are Bill Gates I kick your ass too 'cause you have to do more !
I really had to laugh with this one Shion :D.

But seriously now. What has all this to do with your now? You were sitting in a room, typing this post. Let us be honest: If the News at TV and the newspapers didn't exist, we wouldn't even know that Greenpeace and all that stuff existed. Ask yourself how many of your pondering and worrying is productive?

First change (or tune) yourself (your mind) and then look at what you want to change. Eventually the world only exists in your mind.

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Post by aanwezigheid » Mon Aug 20, 2007 12:26 pm

Ninjin,

I have gone through all your answers in this post. It seems that a lot where you are talking about is based on presuppositions and beliefs. It is like you know all these people. You can not talk like you know everybody on this forum. It is propably true that little people are enlightened, but the moments that I have relaxed my mind are definitely worth living.

Btw, stuff like ET and zen, etc is being implied in the modern psychology. Meditation is becoming a part of it. It just has other names like for example 'Mindfulness'. And how many different is meditation from ET's teachings? It is both about watching your thoughts and emotions and keeping an eye on them... Psychologists use Mindfulness and what is the result? A lot more people are cured then with the traditional techniques in psychology. So please think again about your conclusion that little people are helped with ET's teachings.

Another question: I don't know that much about Tao and Zen. I have always thought that the things where ET talks about is not that much different from Zen. In essence it is the same I thought. ET maybe puts it different into words then Zen. Correct me if I'm wrong on this one.

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