pain body questions

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
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TheFlyingMan
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pain body questions

Post by TheFlyingMan » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:36 pm

Hey ladies and gents,

Can I ask a question about the pain body? I've been going inwards deeply as much as I can for the past few weeks, and I go through periods of joy. But sometimes the painbody comes back, and it uses any excuse to come back - even bringing back memories of arguments that were long gone and resolved - we had kissed and made up!

it's getting very frustrating - like it's never ending. I've been using the Sedona Method as well - which is very similar to ET's feeling of the pain body. I've cleared out so much pain, and then a few days later it feels like it's all coming back.

My question is, please: is that normal? Am I really clearing it out, and it's jsut coming back in waves, or am I not doing it right? Has anyone ever permanently cleared out their pain body? It's really frustrating - I always think that I've gotten rid of it because I go for days without an attack and then BOOM it comes back and tries to control my thinking. I spend days just feeling it and it is still there. I had a very heavy pain body before I discovered ET - it drove me to lose my job and into depression for years before I found ET and started recovering.

Has anyone ever permanently cleared out their pain body? Is this sudden renewal normal? Just a phase? I've heard people say that the pain body fights back when it dies, but this has gone on too long to be a death struggle. Does ET have anything to say about "death struggles"?

Thanks in advance everyone.

TheFlyingMan
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Post by TheFlyingMan » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:48 pm

my god, guys, I just realised I asked almost the exact same question nearly 2 months ago. Sorry.

It's just so frustrating... my pain body used to revolve around one particular painful memory and since then I've cleared it out. And it's latched onto another one - which, like I mentioned, is already over- we've kissed and made up. And I get the feeling it's never ending!

weichen
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Post by weichen » Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:31 am

Hi, TheFlyingMan,
I suggest that you always provide as much detail as possible. This is anonymous forum, so your privacy is protected.

Pain comes from inner conflict, you want the doctor to treat your illness, but you refuse to let the doctor take a look at your body, you will feel pain, and the pain tells you that you need to let go at least one of the two.

Usually you have many pairs of conflicts happening simultaneously. You can start by writing down one pair of conflicts, and the second, third pair will come out later.

TheFlyingMan
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Post by TheFlyingMan » Sun Sep 02, 2007 6:11 am

Hi weichen, thanks for reply. What details do you need? And I'm not sure what you mean about the conflict?

For example, one of my recurrent memories is of an abusive client who cheated and betrayed me. At first I brought up memories of his abusive language and felt the pain from that. But the memories stayed. So I thought it might have gone back to some deeper issues, and I was right.

I did a lot of exploring, and found that some of the pain stemmed from things like being betrayed, and somehow a feeling of abandonment. Therefore, I brought up those concepts and felt that pain fully. Then I went for a few days without any pain or memories at all, and I was ecstatic.

Then other pains began arising. Some of these memories, as mentioned, were from maybe even a decade ago. And some of them were already resolved - let's say an argument with co-worker - we had already apologised and become friends again. And yet I have painful memories.

I've been feeling those pains completely for the past few weeks, clearing them out. And then sometimes the first abusive client comes back in! I'd clear that out, and then other memories will come in. It just feels so never-ending.

Even worse, is sometimes I have a bad feeling without any thought behind it. Some of the other members of this forum have mentioned the same thing. And sometimes it doesn't go away no matter how I feel it or love it or accept it or anything.

Thanks for the help everyone.

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Post by D'ray » Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:18 am

You maybe are not accepting the pain body, and thus it feeds itself with energy.

Accept what you feel and also your painbody. Feel it fully, withouth judgement.

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Post by eseward » Sun Sep 02, 2007 1:30 pm

I don't know anything about Sedona method, but as Eckhart says in A New Earth, it is important to disidentify from these feelings and the thoughts that give rise to them. These are "contained" and activated by the ego-mind (conditioned mind, false self); they are not part of your real self. But as long as you believe them to be "you", a part of your real nature, you bind their suffering and anguish to yourself.

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Post by Foxtrot » Sun Sep 02, 2007 5:18 pm

I did a lot of exploring, and found that some of the pain stemmed from things like being betrayed, and somehow a feeling of abandonment. Therefore, I brought up those concepts and felt that pain fully. Then I went for a few days without any pain or memories at all, and I was ecstatic.

Then other pains began arising. Some of these memories, as mentioned, were from maybe even a decade ago. And some of them were already resolved - let's say an argument with co-worker - we had already apologised and become friends again. And yet I have painful memories

Hi FlyingMan,
The way you describe how you are working on your feelings is very good. Hopefully you didn't just feel the betrayal and abandonment, but where able to recall specific moments from your past, and ultimately the first time you felt those feelings. If you can get that far back you can begin to glimpse how those old feelings, that remain in the subcocious mind even when not being felt, play a part in creating your now and how you experience the events in your life.

EX: Lets look at your argument with your co-worker. If you explore this, if you concentrate on just feeling the feeling, not on the words of the argument, what are you feeling. (anger, frustration, whatever it is). Once you get just the feeling, just sit with it a couple of minutes. Then ask yourself when before this argument have I felt this same feeling. Then just wait, until your memories surface of the previous time. Then ask again, is there an earlier time when I felt the exact same feeling. Finally ask yourself. when did I first feel this feeling. If you get stuck try and notice how old you where at the time of your last memory and look back about 5 - 7 years prior and you will recall an event that happened that envoked the same feeling. If you can recall the first time, when you where a child, you may be able to recall the belief you had, as a child, that is operating in your life today. You, as an adult now, will be able to see that the belief you had is not appropriate now and change it. The result will be that what ever caused the argument between you and your co-worker, if it happens again, would not trigger the negative feeling anymore. You will have liberated yourself from this little piece of the pain body. You would experience the exact same event in an entirely different way. You will quite litterally see things differently. Do this a couple of times, with different feelings and you just might get a glimpse of what is really happening in the world. You will get a glimpse of the cosmic joke.

Yes, the pain body can and will come back again and again. It is made up of many layers, so to speak. But if handled the way you have been, just go a little deeper, it can become kind of a game rather than an over whelming chore. You are on the right track and I congradulate and encourage you to continue. It does however take time, and there may seem to be set backs on the way, but these are not really setbacks just another piece starting to surface for you to clear away.

The book I found that explains this the best in my opinion is called " The Presence Process " by Michael Brown. It is very insightful and will lead you through this process in an experiential way. I wish I had found it alot earlier, as I am sure it would have saved me alot of time and pain. I stumbled around for many years before I realized what was happening, and then I came across this book. lol :D

TheFlyingMan
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Post by TheFlyingMan » Sun Sep 02, 2007 7:40 pm

Thank you all so much! I'm always grateful for the kind of help I get everytime I post on this forum.

Has anyone ever came up with an answer for feeling down without a thought? I've found that once I've cleared out a lot of memories, I feel upset sometimes without a reason. No accompanying thoughts or memories. Like I'm driving along in my car, thoughtless, and then I feel like crying. (And I almost never cry, so it's a bit shocking)

This has been happening a lot since I cleared out my memories - and I am not sure if it's good or bad. I'd like to think it's just another layer and that I'm going deeper into my pain body. Does anyone have any experience in this?

weichen
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feeling down without a thought

Post by weichen » Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:31 pm

"Feeling down without a thought"

Hi TheFlyingMan,

It is due to multiple painbody attack simultanously.

For example, if a friend laugh at the poor dress you are wearing, then several painbodies are bundled together
1. pain about not be able to afford more expensive clothes (money pain)
2. pain and surprise that your friend does not care about your feeling (he used to be your source of emotional support, it seems that you lost it)
3. want to figure out why your friend decide to attack you in front of other people, what have you done to trigger his attack
4. you feel pain, but you want the pain to leave, but it refuse to leave, you worry about your sanity.

these four processes compete against each other for limited mind resource, like several radio station broadcast on the same wavelength, and the brain does not receive a clear thought. Just pain emotion.


But if you changed your attitude about pain, you believe that pain means opportunity for breakthrough, then the 4th painbody release some space back to the pool of space, and the previous three painbody now get a chance again to come to surface, one after another, you will catch them.

After catching them, and if you still feel pain, then it is probably due to more painbodies (in addition to the above four), it will automatically come to you.

TheFlyingMan
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Post by TheFlyingMan » Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:12 am

thanks a lot for that weichen and for the PM too. Sounds like I'm on the right track, then, and I'll just keep doing what I'm doing :D

Thanks again everyone

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Seancho
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Post by Seancho » Mon Sep 03, 2007 10:52 am

Why not just make friends with your pain body?
If you stop believing in fear, is it still scary?

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Post by Webwanderer » Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:14 pm

TheFlyingMan wrote:Has anyone ever came up with an answer for feeling down without a thought? I've found that once I've cleared out a lot of memories, I feel upset sometimes without a reason. No accompanying thoughts or memories. Like I'm driving along in my car, thoughtless, and then I feel like crying. (And I almost never cry, so it's a bit shocking)
Look to your assumptions about life in the moment. Assumptions tend to be hidden beliefs about life that we don't yet recognize as just another internal concept. They are no longer worded thoughts as in the stories the mind generates and spins; but are more subtle, like a lens we see life through.

This is an opportunity for one to observe "feeling down" without judgment. Allow the feeling to rise until you can sense the space around it. Be fully clear and present with the feelings. Be silent of mind and allow the sense of it to be something you feel within you, rather than something that you are, or is a part of you. It's not right or wrong, it is just a product of a choice you made about what some aspect, or some historic event, in life means. Free the assumption. It exists because you hold onto it.

These hidden pains exist because we think we know something, or because we fear something is true. The mind is universally lacking in understanding the nature of Being. Return to the bliss of the unknowing trust that Truth is greater than we can imagine; that we are part of the Eternal Essence of life that adventures in form. Nothing (no-thing) here is permanant other than hereness itself.

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Post by seeker » Mon Sep 03, 2007 8:56 pm

I hesitate to throw my bit into this thread because I've got similar "problems" with pain body experiences. Yet, I think sharing might be helpful.

To begin with, FlyingMan, you are experiencing peace. You say there are days when the painbody is less active. This is very encouraging. Don't hang on to that, but take note.

Next, as others have said, the painbody is layered. It will keep coming back in various forms. I think it has to do with the ego and the fact that so much of the painbody is connected with "my story". The memories of bad clients, for example, are all bound together with a collage that is "my story".

I was walking to the building where I do my meditation, enjoying the sun and the trees etc when suddenly I was painfully aware of how much dislike or even hatred I feel for my family. I thought this was done; I thought I had dealt with this part of my past; but there it was and it was going to screw up my meditation. So, I did the best I could; I put the words into practice.

Some of the most helpful words I've read in Power of Now are about becoming friendly with the present. Accept it as it is in its whole. For me that meant not judging my new pain but simply accepting it as part of this moment. The universe is being what it is and I am part of it. This expression is part of it, this pain is part of it.

So I allowed myself to feel what I felt and watched it unfold. Memories I'd forgotten etc.

Well, it did make meditation more of an effort, but I noticed something. When stupid things happen at work that piss me off or make me feel betrayed, I quickly realize that it's not me it's happened to, it's my ego. I am not that thing. There is distance. With the new feelings that arose toward my family I couldn't find that space. It was me. Hence, the layers of painbody. This was still "my story".

I watched and let it be and now I realize as I write this that there is just a tiny peice of space between those feelings and me.

It's peace and sheer joy of being. It's small, but it's there.

This is happening to you. Allow it to be.

However, I may also point out that I have found Leonard Jacobson's site very helpful. Feeling and expressing in a responsible way my anger etc. has brought an element of peace which I have been grateful to have. Check out the site.

Sorry this is so long, but I do believe that my experience, which cannot be anyone else's, may be at least helpful.

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Post by eseward » Thu Sep 13, 2007 11:33 pm

Great post IMO, seeker.
seeker wrote:When stupid things happen at work that piss me off or make me feel betrayed, I quickly realize that it's not me it's happened to, it's my ego. I am not that thing. There is distance. With the new feelings that arose toward my family I couldn't find that space. It was me. Hence, the layers of painbody. This was still "my story".

I watched and let it be and now I realize as I write this that there is just a tiny peice of space between those feelings and me.

It's peace and sheer joy of being. It's small, but it's there.
Beautiful!! Congrats and continued success! :)

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