Sex

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)

Sex

Postby spatialbean » Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:02 am

Ok, here's a question and answer from the last Tolle bulletin. I guess I understand Eckhart's response, but as he says, I am wanting more, always more.

My question is on the other side of the quote.


Dear Eckhart,

If you only live in the now, what would stop someone who is in a relationship or marriage from resisting the temptation to have sex with anyone who is attractive but who is not his/her partner? After all, if you are in the now and see someone attractive, you want to have sex with them now.

From,
Anonymous

Answer: Does living in the Now mean giving in to every impulse that arises? Then all those people who chase one sexual partner after another must be enlightened.

As long as you want something from another (such as sex), are you present? Or are you seeking to reach some point in the future that promises fulfillment? (And thereby making the present moment as well as the other person into a means to an end.) All wanting implies that the future is more desirable than the present, does it not?

It is inevitable that physical attraction towards another person will sometimes occur. That’s no more than part of nature. When you identify with that impulse, it becomes “you” and turns into wanting. The other person then becomes a means to an end – the end being sex, the attainment of the object of your desire.

When you are present, you can observe the attraction or the sexual feeling within yourself, recognize it as natural, accept it, even enjoy it without needing to act it out. After all, it may be totally inappropriate to do so within the totality of the situation. When you recognize yourself as the space of consciousness in which the impulse arises, you don’t become the impulse; you don’t lose yourself in it. Being present is being the space, rather than what happens.


Ok let's say these are two single people, no other commitments. Does sex happen? I mean I know sex happens, but is it then always wanting fulfillment thru another? It makes is seem like sex would be not such a good thing, yet I know he doesn't advocate celibacy.

Confused.
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Postby phil » Tue Dec 27, 2005 3:53 pm

Well, Tolle says that physical attraction is, "no more than part of nature." Hmm, "no more than", interesting choice of words.

He recognizes the naturalness of the physical attraction. But he doesn't recognize the naturalness of the emotional need.

Um, I told you we'd get in to this kind of trouble if we used single guys as our teachers. :-) (only half joking)

Seriously, we might pause before labeling the physical side of relationships natural and the emotional need not natural when they've both been there side by side in just about everyone ever born over thousands of years.

Surely we'll agree that the emotional need for others is where the trouble brews. I can understand why we'd want to look at that.

But the emotional need is also the glue that holds relationships, familys, and societies together.

Do we really want to throw the baby out with the dirty bath water? Isn't being a human being a tad more complicated than that?

On one hand we might agree that spirituality is a process of surrendering the illusion of seperateness.

On the other hand we seem to be working pretty hard to make ourselves independent of everything and everybody.

is it then always wanting fulfillment thru another?


If we set aside human theories, and just try to clearly observe "what is" since the dawn of man, fulfillment through others appears there.
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Postby be-lank » Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:40 pm

“Surely we'll agree that the emotional need for others is where the trouble brews. I can understand why we'd want to look at that.

But the emotional need is also the glue that holds relationships, families, and societies together.”

Exactly. Let’s look at this glue. In your view this glue is seen as positive. In mine, it is where the trouble brews. Glue is an attachment. Attachment brews trouble. Is trouble. Is suffering. You value relationships, families and societies and keeping them together. In other words, you value illusion. Because all of that is illusion. The only thing that is real is this moment. Anything else is a head-trip. You like that trip, and you defend it always. And that’s fine. But you are defending a dream, you are defending nothing, which makes it something.

”Do we really want to throw the baby out with the dirty bath water?”

The baby is God. The dirty bath water is what you think is the baby. But when one is attached, glued to dirty bath water, one thinks it is the baby. It is simply faulty perception.

“Isn't being a human being a tad more complicated than that?”

No. Being a human Being is very simple. Being a person with relationships, families, and societies, that’s complicated. And the mind loves complications.

You seem determined to be a thorn in Eckhart’s side. (Not that he would mind at all, and nor do I!) There seems to be an on going argument with him, or “His” views. Which is comical, as he is Master, and you are.. Phil. This implies arrogance, ignorance and foolishness. But, if you knew he was a Master, then you would have no argument with him. So you don’t know. Unconscious. But that is fine. You have a world of company!

The emotional need of males and females ultimately is the need for Oneness, for completing one’s self. But this need cannot be fulfilled in another- or not for long. No outer form will complete us. We are already complete. Whole. One. Looking within instead of in the outer world allows us to realize this. Anyone who has had enough suffering, enough of it all, where they know that they cannot find true fulfillment in the outer world, knows that within is the only direction to follow. And also knows that Eckhart is a Master, and every word he speaks, and more, the silence in which he Is, the presence and consciousness that he is, Is who we are, and is what we really want. One who loves God is at full attention and listens to Its every sound and silence, whether in nature or in a form called Eckhart. They do not argue with God. They want to dissolve in God.

We can have positions and beliefs, but if there is not an open heart in us that can drop these things and receive Love, then Love cannot be received. Who are we- mouthing off on our platforms, behind a pulpit? Let’s drop this “we” this “me” for a spell, and receive pure Consciousness, instead of our own rhetoric.

“Seriously,” watch for that! “We might pause before labeling the physical side of relationships natural and the emotional need not natural when they've both been there side by side in just about everyone ever born over thousands of years.”

Hundreds of thousands of years of human conditioned mind, of human pain and suffering! There is a value and credence placed on “How it has been for so long” as if that is the determining factor, and since it has been that way for so long, that this is natural- the way it is.

That is not natural at all. Nothing in the world for mankind since the beginning of time- which is mind- which is man- is natural! It is mind. It is mind-identification, ego, which has manifested a false world and view of the world, and much pain as well.

One could say, “it is normal”- but not natural. The only thing that is natural is not a thing, it is Being, and we lost Being a long time ago and replaced it with thinking and doing and reacting. Our job is to disidentify, detach, unglue our Attention, our Awareness from the mind- from this little fake me that we think we are and is not natural at all. (That which says some pretty lame things, but thinks it is saying something important.)

“On one hand we might agree that spirituality is a process of surrendering the illusion of separateness.”

Are you in that process?

More simply put, we surrender to what Is. To whatever forms the Now is taking.

We surrender to limitation, to obstacles, to “things that go wrong in the moment.” We surrender by allowing them to be, by accepting them fully, by being aligned with what is, by saying Yes to what is, by being friendly with this moment, by accepting that which is unacceptable to us in the Now. In essence, we surrender TO the illusion- which allows an opening to come within us, and for Consciousness- Reality- to emerge. And for felt Oneness with Being to occur, and the realization that all is One, and that the illusion is God as well. God is the world. God is all forms. And God is hiding in forms. When we accept the limitations of the moment- the unlimited comes through.

In a way it is God waking God up through the human- who are bridges from heaven to earth- so to speak. But the human mind has to be stilled in order for this to happen. And it is the only way the sacred can come to this world directly. Christ consciousness. The cross represents limitation- pain, and it also represents the Divine. It is acceptance of the limitation, “Thy will be done.” that allows the divine to come through- liberation, emancipation, freedom, freedom from suffering, enlightenment, salvation.

But for those who love their crosses, that’s a different matter.

“On the other hand we seem to be working pretty hard to make ourselves independent of everything and everybody.”

There is fear here. A mind, egoic perception- a neediness. “Everybody.” What’s that? There is only God. There is only One. One in many forms- we call people, And most people are walking and talking egos. Even in a room full of people we like, they are all separate and the closest an ego can get to another is still a long way away! All of these people are independent of everything and everybody.

When One realizes that God is the only One, that is so close that there is no close! The One Is and is the human form. (And the form we call Eckhart has realized this fully.) Then there is no such thing as independence or dependence. (Which is of mind. Concepts of the mind. Not real.) There is only God.

“If we set aside human theories, and just try to clearly observe "what is" since the dawn of man, fulfillment through others appears there.”

This is conceptual.

“If we set aside human theories, and clearly observe What Is- we see who we are.”

This is actual.

The difference? One is a story, illusion. The other is Reality.

One is asleep. The other is awake.
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Postby spatialbean » Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:07 pm

I have to re-read and digest both of your responses, but I just quickly wanted to let Phil know that Eckhart has been in a relationship with a woman for 10 years now. They aren't married and I don't think they live together. I don't know if that still puts him in the single category or not.

Love,
me
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Postby spatialbean » Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:25 am

Oh come on Lisa, quit beating around the bush, tell Phil what you REALLY think. hahahahahaha :D

Which is comical, as he is Master, and you are.. Phil.
OMG! hahahah How hilariously rude! But really, we gotta see all people as masters, or at least I gotta.
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Postby Egoicmidget » Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:27 am

So many thoughts about the subject I sense strong even powerful essence running through this thread.

The conclusion I am drawing is that if we are all one then there really is no barrior to" isness".

I think the egoic self is really wrapped up in pleasing and getting more for itself.
Of saying if I get this or that I'll arrive or be saved from feeling empty or lonley, this is how mine works anyway so I certainly only speak for me,which I realize is egoic in itself. :shock: Those darn words.

This can happen quite unconciously, but that is really the point.

The shuttling activity between being present and the occassional side adventures of mind and illusion. I think sex is so powerful it invades almost as a seperate entity.


Desire is the powerhouse that has the gravity to compel the ego to feed itself unknowlingy or knowingly.

There is the problem when the NOW is lost through being unable or not willing to stay "here" now.


In my view that is the split most people feel and act or don't act on.

The shuttling is the one I have problems with myself my feelings are lightening fast and I get immersed in them very quicky they have inertia
and move internally like a powerful force that seems overwhelming,like a runaway train.

I suppose creating a gap to seperate and watch without judgment is the answer.The "witnessing presence".

There is great energy released within when life re-emerges after living in an abandened room with no lights sometimes the sun shines too bright at first, not always the most constructive things happen but they are a learning experience none the less.


Be Here Now.

Ram Dass

My first teacher.
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Postby heidi » Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:42 am

Hi Lisa (right, you and be-lank are both Lisas?)- Our existence is filled with paradox, and you just hit on one. One thing I know is that it wasn't until I'd become whole unto myself that my relationships also did. So, paradoxically the fulfillment of a relationship just Is - rather than fulfilling a longing or incompleteness.

I do feel that it's our nature as animals - which we are, by the way, to have The Itch, nature's way of keeping a species going. So, an itch may want to be scratched, and it is in the scratching where the isness is :) We eat because we're hungry. If we didn't we'd be dead.

The act, also known as the little death, is a very present thing when it's happening. It's the itch - the before part that you're talking about, yes?

Tantric sex is all about presence during the act. You might want to look into that. There are all sorts of reasons why we humans have relationships and sex, and I'm knowing that when we are present in the doing and being, then we are living in the now.

What was the question? :?
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Postby spatialbean » Wed Dec 28, 2005 12:59 am

Hi Heidi,

No, I'm a Claudia, she's a Lisa.

Yes, tantra!
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Postby heidi » Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:23 am

Hi Claudia - Yes, corrected :) It is very cool how we are using words to get at these things.

We can go on to talk about how orgasm is an utimate nowness experience.
We can talk about how the urge, by its very nature, is a forward seeming thing. And here's the hitch - being in the urge, being present in the urge. The state of "wanting" be it food, sex, itch, cigarette... - to be present to the urge. I've been experincing an hororing of what is, and if it's an itch, well it's a sacrament, as is every moment. :)

PS - Ahhhh, Naturally, those things we have urges for (future), when we do them - sex, eat, whatever) when are are in the doing we are the most present!
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Postby spatialbean » Wed Dec 28, 2005 1:36 am

Yes being in the doing. Today I ate a bunch of toast and I was only in the being of the doing for a few bites. The rest was eaten compulsively without thought or experiencing the toastness.

Food and sex are all mixed up in me but I'm not going to talk about that.

:shock:
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Postby heidi » Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:20 am

Food and sex are all mixed up in me but I'm not going to talk about that.

Ahhh, but maybe that's what wants to be addressed?
The presence and at the same time unconscious consumption of the act, be it eating, sex, smoking, whatever?
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Postby be-lank » Wed Dec 28, 2005 4:57 am

I just want to get laid.
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Postby be-lank » Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:00 am

Make that some Lisa wants to get laid.

Consciousness wants a donut and a smoke!
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Postby be-lank » Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:17 am

“Oh come on Lisa, quit beating around the bush, tell Phil what you REALLY think.”

Claudia, you know that shyness is something I am working on. I’ve always had a problem with being open, honest and direct! Thanks to Phil, I am slowly coming out of my shell.

“Which is comical, as he is a Master, and you are… Phil.”
“How hilariously rude!” And true Claudia, don’t forget true!

“But really, we gotta see all people as masters, or at least I gotta.”
Whoa! We need to talk! Yes, within all is the One Master, The One consciousness. People are teachers, but not masters. Not until they have realized this One within. Not until the ego has dissolved, and they are what is left, The One. Like Eckhart Tolle.
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Postby be-lank » Wed Dec 28, 2005 5:36 am

“I think sex is so powerful it invades almost as a separate entity.” I agree John, especially for males. (Generally speaking, perhaps exclusively!) Biology!

This may account for why celibacy and spirituality have often held hands.

Desire itself deserves its own topic! Like you, I also have fierce desire. Though not in the same arena perhaps. But I sure can relate to the fires of desire!

“I suppose creating a gap to separate and watch without judgment is the answer. The "witnessing presence".

There is great energy released within when life re-emerges after living in an abandoned room with no lights sometimes the sun shines too bright at first, not always the most constructive things happen but they are a learning experience none the less.


Be Here Now.” Beautiful! Great Post John. Let’s look at Desire itself.. after SEX!
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