“Surely we'll agree that the emotional need for others is where the trouble brews. I can understand why we'd want to look at that.
But the emotional need is also the glue that holds relationships, families, and societies together.”
Exactly. Let’s look at this glue. In your view this glue is seen as positive. In mine, it is where the trouble brews. Glue is an attachment. Attachment brews trouble. Is trouble. Is suffering. You value relationships, families and societies and keeping them together. In other words, you value illusion. Because all of that is illusion. The only thing that is real is this moment. Anything else is a head-trip. You like that trip, and you defend it always. And that’s fine. But you are defending a dream, you are defending nothing, which makes it something.
”Do we really want to throw the baby out with the dirty bath water?”
The baby is God. The dirty bath water is what you think is the baby. But when one is attached, glued to dirty bath water, one thinks it is the baby. It is simply faulty perception.
“Isn't being a human being a tad more complicated than that?”
No. Being a human Being is very simple. Being a person with relationships, families, and societies, that’s complicated. And the mind loves complications.
You seem determined to be a thorn in Eckhart’s side. (Not that he would mind at all, and nor do I!) There seems to be an on going argument with him, or “His” views. Which is comical, as he is Master, and you are.. Phil. This implies arrogance, ignorance and foolishness. But, if you knew he was a Master, then you would have no argument with him. So you don’t know. Unconscious. But that is fine. You have a world of company!
The emotional need of males and females ultimately is the need for Oneness, for completing one’s self. But this need cannot be fulfilled in another- or not for long. No outer form will complete us. We are already complete. Whole. One. Looking within instead of in the outer world allows us to realize this. Anyone who has had enough suffering, enough of it all, where they know that they cannot find true fulfillment in the outer world, knows that within is the only direction to follow. And also knows that Eckhart is a Master, and every word he speaks, and more, the silence in which he Is, the presence and consciousness that he is, Is who we are, and is what we really want. One who loves God is at full attention and listens to Its every sound and silence, whether in nature or in a form called Eckhart. They do not argue with God. They want to dissolve in God.
We can have positions and beliefs, but if there is not an open heart in us that can drop these things and receive Love, then Love cannot be received. Who are we- mouthing off on our platforms, behind a pulpit? Let’s drop this “we” this “me” for a spell, and receive pure Consciousness, instead of our own rhetoric.
“Seriously,” watch for that! “We might pause before labeling the physical side of relationships natural and the emotional need not natural when they've both been there side by side in just about everyone ever born over thousands of years.”
Hundreds of thousands of years of human conditioned mind, of human pain and suffering! There is a value and credence placed on “How it has been for so long” as if that is the determining factor, and since it has been that way for so long, that this is natural- the way it is.
That is not natural at all. Nothing in the world for mankind since the beginning of time- which is mind- which is man- is natural! It is mind. It is mind-identification, ego, which has manifested a false world and view of the world, and much pain as well.
One could say, “it is normal”- but not natural. The only thing that is natural is not a thing, it is Being, and we lost Being a long time ago and replaced it with thinking and doing and reacting. Our job is to disidentify, detach, unglue our Attention, our Awareness from the mind- from this little fake me that we think we are and is not natural at all. (That which says some pretty lame things, but thinks it is saying something important.)
“On one hand we might agree that spirituality is a process of surrendering the illusion of separateness.”
Are you in that process?
More simply put, we surrender to what Is. To whatever forms the Now is taking.
We surrender to limitation, to obstacles, to “things that go wrong in the moment.” We surrender by allowing them to be, by accepting them fully, by being aligned with what is, by saying Yes to what is, by being friendly with this moment, by accepting that which is unacceptable to us in the Now. In essence, we surrender TO the illusion- which allows an opening to come within us, and for Consciousness- Reality- to emerge. And for felt Oneness with Being to occur, and the realization that all is One, and that the illusion is God as well. God is the world. God is all forms. And God is hiding in forms. When we accept the limitations of the moment- the unlimited comes through.
In a way it is God waking God up through the human- who are bridges from heaven to earth- so to speak. But the human mind has to be stilled in order for this to happen. And it is the only way the sacred can come to this world directly. Christ consciousness. The cross represents limitation- pain, and it also represents the Divine. It is acceptance of the limitation, “Thy will be done.” that allows the divine to come through- liberation, emancipation, freedom, freedom from suffering, enlightenment, salvation.
But for those who love their crosses, that’s a different matter.
“On the other hand we seem to be working pretty hard to make ourselves independent of everything and everybody.”
There is fear here. A mind, egoic perception- a neediness. “Everybody.” What’s that? There is only God. There is only One. One in many forms- we call people, And most people are walking and talking egos. Even in a room full of people we like, they are all separate and the closest an ego can get to another is still a long way away! All of these people are independent of everything and everybody.
When One realizes that God is the only One, that is so close that there is no close! The One Is and is the human form. (And the form we call Eckhart has realized this fully.) Then there is no such thing as independence or dependence. (Which is of mind. Concepts of the mind. Not real.) There is only God.
“If we set aside human theories, and just try to clearly observe "what is" since the dawn of man, fulfillment through others appears there.”
This is conceptual.
“If we set aside human theories, and clearly observe What Is- we see who we are.”
This is actual.
The difference? One is a story, illusion. The other is Reality.
One is asleep. The other is awake.