Page 1 of 1

defining evil-insanity evil?

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:57 pm
by bear3303
This has been bugging me for a long time----ET says that when humans are evil, it is because they don't 'know' the God in them, they haven't connected to the divinity that they are, so they are reacting from the ego---I understand that, I do it all the time;)
But, say, take Hitler---so, he wasn't in touch with his inner divinity meethinks, so, say, let's put a victim of his torture in the same room with him-----the victim is to do what??? Understand that hitler is reacting from ego, and so, then what?? Forgiveness would be huge for the victim, but doable, but, say, hitler is in his prime, and he isn't done killing and torturing yet, what does the victim do with a monster that isn't done? It's one thing to forgive when the evil is over, but when it's happening over and over, and will happen the next day, then what??? How does one deal with this, and isn't hitler's actions to be considered evil??? But hitler wasn't evil, just out of touch???? Or insane, and therefore not accountable?
And what about insanity----evil killers like hitler, like ted bundy---people who are pathological killers, who hurt animals as childeren, who can't feel guilt---so there is no way for them to get in touch with God, they can't feel God, they aren't able to feel guilt or remorse---they are born this way, like, someone who is born without an arm, it isn't their fault, correct??? So, are these people evil, or insane, or both?????
What should be done with them??? Is it their 'fault'??? They were born that way, so, they are doing the best they can, so to speak, right??? Like, say, the other end of it---Mother theresa----she was born with her abilities, she couldn't be a torturer is she tried, it just wasn't in her cards.
My ? is really what is the nature of evil, and what do we do with it, and do we all have the capasity to be a hitler or a mother teresa in us at some level??
Could hitler have been 'rehabilitated'??? or ted?? and if not, should they be held accountable for their actions in the same way that 'normal' people are? But then, would 'normal' people have been able to do what they did??? say, jeffry dommer(sp) the
guy who killed and ate young boys---wasn't he insane???? I think so. So, how does that fit in with human evolution??? Do 'insane' people need to happen?? I guess so, otherwise they wouldn't be born, correct????
And what of people who do awful things--like drowning their childeren in bathtubs--because they are bi-polar, and onece the meds are dispensened, they are 'normal', and so wracked with guilt---but, at the time, in their perception of reality, it was the right and loving thing to do to kill the childeren, to spare them pain of life---there are many women in prison right now, for this 'crime'---that was an evil act, but the women weren't evil, just chemically 'wrong'---so, what defines evil??? and insanity??? is evil insanity????

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 5:30 pm
by kiki
This is all one magnificent play being acted out by the one consciousness. Consciousness gets to play every role in every situation, yet appear as the "many" as well as all of the props. Beneath the role of every character shines the one consciousness. As long as attention of the characters rest on the "other" participants all sorts of drama, tragedy, comedy and everything else gets to be played out in full. This is sometimes called lila, the play of consciousness.

Remaining ignorant of what lies beneath it all, every form of "cruelty" and "compassion" is allowed to be explored and experienced. Things only matter to what appear to be the individual characters, and the manner in which they react is what gets experienced by formless consciousness.

Do you see? Formless consciousness can't "experience" anything until it takes form. When consciousness does take form, however, things can happen. The limitations of form create what appear to be opposites/polarities and allow formless consciousness to experience itself in some way through that form. It matters not to consciousness what that form is because underneath it all consciousness remains free, untouched, and unharmed in any way. It's a brilliant and clever setup that allows for everything. So consider this: if it allows for everything wouldn't it then see fit to experience everything, even what appears to be the "bad" stuff?

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:08 pm
by Seancho
What do you do if your brother is sleepwalking with a big stick in his hand?

You stay out of his way and hope he wakes up. :lol:

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:13 am
by Webwanderer
bear3303,

Author C. S. Lewis was great for setting up these morality dilemas. Consider the problem of one all immersed in a love and light mentality when he (or she) comes upon a brutal rapist attacking a child. He's much too big and strong to push away and you have no way to call for help. You see on the ground a good sized knife. The rapist does not respond to threats and has no fear of you. It seems your only option is to use the knife. A minor wound to the attacker will likely only enrage him, causing him to turn on you before finishing his dastardly work on the child.

What will you do? Preach the gospel... or do what you must to save the child?

Evil (which curiously is live spelled backwards or reversed) is ignorance that preys on others from a separate sense of superiority/inferiority and rationalization/justification. It takes many forms and may be subtle or intense. But is there really anything wrong with evil? Or for that matter it's sibling... sin?

Kiki's adept discription of Essential being is home to sinner and saint alike. Without judgment there is no wrong, only cause and effect within the world of form. We all have roles to play in the great forum of life. Whatever circumstances present themselves will offer opportunities for unique expression. Choices will have to be made, and actions will have to be taken (and not choosing is a choice in itself).

It is ones judgments on those circumstances, made from the understanding within our current belief structure, that will guide us into how we respond. That may be with more judgmental self-righteousness, perpetuating ones own conceptual superiority; or with a clarity born of forgiveness, that responds as is appropriate without judgmental separation.

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:04 am
by bear3303
Man, thank yall very much--so much to ponder!!!---I had forgotten that it's an illusion that we are separate beings, so, is it like a prism, all the facets of potential humanity that needs to be played out? all potential reactions and feelings and levels of awareness?? So, insanity is just another chord in the symphony of human experience?? so it has to be?? evil insanity, that is--so, will there get to a point where it's all been done, and every note has been played, and it's over??
and, if it were me, i'd carve that killer up with no qualms:) i am not a pacifist, tho, I think pasifism would be the ideal state, but I think where we are in our evolution, it isn't practical.
and I like the big stick, and avoiding the sleepwalker:)

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 6:12 am
by suraj
This is all one magnificent play being acted out by the one consciousness. Consciousness gets to play every role in every situation, yet appear as the "many" as well as all of the props. Beneath the role of every character shines the one consciousness. As long as attention of the characters rest on the "other" participants all sorts of drama, tragedy, comedy and everything else gets to be played out in full. This is sometimes called lila, the play of consciousness.

Remaining ignorant of what lies beneath it all, every form of "cruelty" and "compassion" is allowed to be explored and experienced. Things only matter to what appear to be the individual characters, and the manner in which they react is what gets experienced by formless consciousness.

Do you see? Formless consciousness can't "experience" anything until it takes form. When consciousness does take form, however, things can happen. The limitations of form create what appear to be opposites/polarities and allow formless consciousness to experience itself in some way through that form. It matters not to consciousness what that form is because underneath it all consciousness remains free, untouched, and unharmed in any way. It's a brilliant and clever setup that allows for everything. So consider this: if it allows for everything wouldn't it then see fit to experience everything, even what appears to be the "bad" stuff?
Excellent ! Shankara would have been proud of you :)
Kiki , you have exceeded yourself once again

Evil is a label. A thought form.

Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:57 am
by Suzanne
Collective human madness will slow and stop if enough people awaken to their divnity, their connectedness.

Until then, untold suffering will endure. What purpose does it serve to discuss the details?

Thinking about past madness and suffering only serves a purpose if it causes you to look for the sacred within, in stillness. And for that, assigning labels to specific brands of madness is pointless.

:wink: