How things look and feel when Awake

[DavidK]

We've been having a neat little Q&A session over under Spiritual Teachers. viewtopic.php?t=311

I thought I would start a continuation here so others could find it more easily.

Kiki, you have provided some really helpful insight into how your awakening happened and what life is like for you now. Thank you very much for that.

Now I feel moved to ask a few more questions regarding issues that have been puzzling me. Please don't feel obliged to spend a lot of time answering unless you really want to. But here is one I've been struggling with.

1. The consensus among spiritual teachers seems to be that illumination results in the realization that there is only one conscious Awareness, out of which all forms appear and disappear.

So when Sammy and Sally each Awaken, they realize that they are One and have been all along. If this is so, then I would think that the Oneness would be aware of both egos simultaneously. The Oneness would in fact be omniscient. Is this so?

If so, a Self Realized individual should be able to access any ego/mind at anytime, I would think.

If not, then the Onesness perceived by the awakened individual must have a limited field of vision.

For example. I think I'm a wave in San Francisco Bay. I Awaken and then realize that I am the Entire Ocean. But if that is so, then how come I cannot feel the breeze blowing over the Sea of Japan?

Or if enlighted Sally scratches her nose, should not enlightened Sammy be aware of it?


Dave

P.S. I think that Ramana Maharshi would answer me like this:

Who is asking the question? Find out and the question will not arise.

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[kiki]

"P.S. I think that Ramana Maharshi would answer me like this:

Who is asking the question? Find out and the question will not arise."

Probably. I would classify such ability under "mysticism". Awakening isn't about mystical powers, though such powers do exist. Patanjali's Yoga Sutras addresses this, but he also warns that having such ability can be detrimental to one's spiritual well-being. Such powers would be quite seductive to the ego.

"So when Sammy and Sally each Awaken, they realize that they are One and have been all along. If this is so, then I would think that the Oneness would be aware of both egos simultaneously."

Right, the ego would THINK that wouldn't it? It's a good way to keep mind spinning along. Why doesn't kiki experience the itching of David's nose? I don't know. However, there being only one "oneness" there IS awareness of both egos simultaneously. The fact "your" exeriences don't automatically manifest to "me" is a mystery. I'm fine with that. Mystery keeps things from becoming boring.

"The Oneness would in fact be omniscient. Is this so? "

Let's redifine omniscience this way: knowing all - not the specifics of every possible piece of "data" about the manifest universe, to be regurgitated by some cosmic Ken Jennings of Jeopardy fame. Instead, let's simplify the definition to "all knowing" in the sense that awareness is required for "all" to be illuminated, to be known.

Awareness is the sole "thing" that knows all, for literally nothing can be "known" without it. No matter what is here, there will be the knowing of it by awareness. Does this make sense? Can you see how there could be be "omniscience" now? There is just ONE awareness, not "my" awareness and "your" awareness - just ONE awareness which illuminates all things.

Similarly, we can define awareness as omnipotent: all powerful. Without awareness nothing could manifest. Everything which arises must do so by some sort of "power". The only source of "power" can be awareness because power can't be separate from awareness, therefore it is "all powerful"/omnipotent. The power must be in potential form prior to action, and somehow it "moves", energy is in motion and takes on all the various shapes and forms that are seen. How this happens is another mystery, but the fact that is does is quite the miracle isn't it? Let's revel in the mystery of it.

Awareness is also omnipresent. It is everywhere, for wherever any "thing" is, there will be the presence of awareness in order for it to be "known". When the Hubble telescope reaches out into the far reaches of the physical universe, coursing through time as it goes farther into space, the images which it captures through its cameras are brought into presence. You cannot shake awareness from anything, cannot separate it from what it shines upon, cannot separate "knowingness" from that which is known. Pretty amazing "stuff", huh?

These sorts of questions were important to "me" at one time. Now they don't arise.

By the way, for those who prefer proper quoting, I can never get the quoting tool to work right. Sorry.

[spatialbean]

I have thought about this too, Dave, but ever so slightly different. Like when I have a little esp moment and go "hey wow" but then realize there is no barrier and we are all one, so why not tap into other things?

Or when skeptics seek to debunk this type of connection, when to me it seems like it would be a natural occurance as we are all the One.

Maybe as an enlightened person this becomes unimportant?

Love,
Claudia

[DavidK]

Probably. I would classify such ability under "mysticism". Awakening isn't about mystical powers, though such powers do exist. Patanjali's Yoga Sutras addresses this, but he also warns that having such ability can be detrimental to one's spiritual well-being. Such powers would be quite seductive to the ego.

Right. I used to be very interested in mysticism/metaphysics. But that interest has been waning as my interest in non-dual spiritual truth and awakening has been increasing.

The fact "your" exeriences don't automatically manifest to "me" is a mystery. I'm fine with that. Mystery keeps things from becoming boring.

Quite true.
And the fact is that the more I try to figure out enigmas like that, the more caught up in thought I become.

I've been trying to remember what I was doing differently when I had my mini awakening experience. I think I was very focused on observing whatever arose in my awareness and reminding myself that these thoughts, feelings, sensations, were not my true Self. I was not as involved with the actual content then as I have been lately.

I was also choosing to be in a space of strong faith that I am complete as I am, I need nothing, and no matter what happens, nothing can hurt or even disturb my true Self.

So I think I am going to try to get back to focusing on observing when things arise or disappear in consciousness-- and ignore, as much as possible, the content of what arises.

Instead, let's simplify the definition to "all knowing" in the sense that awareness is required for "all" to be illuminated, to be known.

I think I understand what you are saying. So maybe it is more like saying that I am a wave that has realized I am water and that I am one with all water. The water that forms my wave in SF Bay does not need to feel the breeze in the Sea of Japan to be considered "one with the oneness of water"

Awareness is also omnipresent. It is everywhere, for wherever any "thing" is, there will be the presence of awareness in order for it to be "known". When the Hubble telescope reaches out into the far reaches of the physical universe, coursing through time as it goes farther into space, the images which it captures through its cameras are brought into presence. You cannot shake awareness from anything, cannot separate it from what it shines upon, cannot separate "knowingness" from that which is known. Pretty amazing "stuff", huh?

You can say that again.

These sorts of questions were important to "me" at one time. Now they don't arise.

Well thank you for being so compassionate with those of us who are still chasing wild geese.

Dave

[kiki]

David said, "The water that forms my wave in SF Bay does not need to feel the breeze in the Sea of Japan to be considered "one with the oneness of water"

When the wave merges into the ocean, the entire ocean is "known". What else can be "known" while in the ocean itself?

To try to conceptualize it is like trying to separate "wetness" from water so that "water" can be examined, studied, and understood by the mind. Instead, BECOME water fully by merging with the source of all water, the ocean. Even while in "wave form" the wave is water, but it doesn't recognize this; it is too mesmerized by all of the other waves.

I will rest now. Peace to all.

k

[Egoicmidget]

Kiki you summed it up most elegantly when you said:

Awareness is the sole "thing" that knows all, for literally nothing can be "known" without it. No matter what is here, there will be the knowing of it by awareness. Does this make sense? Can you see how there could be be "omniscience" now? There is just ONE awareness, not "my" awareness and "your" awareness - just ONE awareness which illuminates all things.

Thanks David for asking the great questions we PoN beginners long
to hear the answers too.


John