Gradual process or spontaneous event ??

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D'ray
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Gradual process or spontaneous event ??

Post by D'ray » Tue Dec 18, 2007 11:06 pm

Hi folks,

If you think you are fully awakened :wink: did "it" just click when you became enlighten or was the process gradual, in other words, did you get glimpses of the truth and moved from there on? I'm interested what people think about it?

I had my glimpse a few weeks ago and now it feels like I lost it.. or the sensation of the understanding is gone. I don't really know what I'm thinking about my state right now. On the other hand it feels like it's my ego wanting more, but it also might be that my ego has come back only sneakier than before and integrated somehow to my watcher of thoughts. But it feels like I have no problems. Messy it is :mrgreen:

All input appreciated
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Re: Gradual process or spontaneous event ??

Post by Intel » Wed Dec 19, 2007 12:00 am

I would love to hear the answers to this. I had my first glimpse of awakening over a year ago when I first read Tolle's book. I had a couple more, but they only lasted a few moments. Now i'm just working on presence.
I would lick your feet, but is that the sickest move?

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Re: Gradual process or spontaneous event ??

Post by weopposedeception » Wed Dec 19, 2007 5:42 am

The less I know the wiser I become. The "eye of the I" cannot see itself and alas must remain a mystery.

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Re: Gradual process or spontaneous event ??

Post by weichen » Wed Dec 19, 2007 8:16 pm

It is gradual. Some of the surrender is easier, and after the surrender, you receive more happiness and material success. The momentum then prompt you to surrender more. I feel that I have surrendered the last piece: contribution to humanity. What is left can be called a 'pure spiritual being'.


But it is not really pure even after surrendering the last piece, because the old conditioning of the mind is still there, much weaker. So I can redo the surrendering cycle again, surrender those that I have already surrendered, but only at a deeper level this time.

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Re: Gradual process or spontaneous event ??

Post by heidi » Thu Dec 20, 2007 1:57 am

Forth and back, back and forth, like waves on the shore.
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Kutso
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Re: Gradual process or spontaneous event ??

Post by Kutso » Thu Dec 20, 2007 11:24 am

D'ray wrote:Hi folks,

If you think you are fully awakened :wink: did "it" just click when you became enlighten or was the process gradual, in other words, did you get glimpses of the truth and moved from there on?
I'm not claiming to be enlightened, but there seems to be to ways to become enlightened. One is through intense suffering, which just suddenly happens all at once. The other one is through meditation and such, and this approach seem to be gradual.
Since I meditate all the time, my path to enlightenment has been gradual. I have small glimpses every now and then, which I believe will add up and eventually lead to enlightenment. As I write this I realize that this ofcourse is just another concept which I will have to get rid of eventually. But that's how I see it for the moment anyway.

Kutso
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Re: Gradual process or spontaneous event ??

Post by innerhike » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:42 am

D'ray,

It's been some time since you posted this question and while you may not come back to this thread, others might.

So for their sake I will say this.

First off I do not consider myself fully enlightened or fully woken up.

I am simply who I am. "Just another guy finding his way around the block".

My take is that very few people will stay in the NOW, that they will have temporary openings into the NOW, and unless they work to stabilize in this opening, they will lose this so-called enlightenment.

In the presence of higher consciousness, teachers such as Eckhart, or even reading their words, or through some tremendous beauty or suffering in life that we encounter, we can have temporary openings into the NOW.

But to stabilize in this takes work.

So the school of sudden enlightenment has many students but few graduate.

I have one word to describe the mind: habit.

Some people can drop habits cold turkey, others take years, and need support groups.

It all depends on your constitution, what kind of work you have done before, what amount of suffering you have faced and if there is such a thing as reincarnation, how much work or suffering you have had in lives previous to this one.

Again, this is all my own thinking but it is validated in large part by teachers such as Ramana Maharshi (who Eckhart looks up to as do many other teachers such as Gangaji and Ken Wilber). If you read Talks with Ramana Maharshi carefully you see him talking over and over again about the value of steady practice of letting go in its various forms. He says emphatically that a fully enlightenened being has no mind left, that there are no residual tendencies, thoughts or patterns left. There is only action, there is no actor left. This is a guy that Jung spoke highly of, someone who had visitors show up from around the world just to sit in his presence. Ramana says clearly that if a being is truly and fully enlightened, one can be sure that this being did their work in previous lifetimes.

I believe that in the sea of seekers following the non-duality teachers such as Adya, Eckhart, Gangaji, few keep up any kind of dedicated practice and therefore only realize superficial benefit from their teachings and presence. There are people such as Andrew Cohen and Arjuna Ardagh who call themselves teachers and to this day appear to be going around wondering what is enlightenment? They have spent much time around teachers such as Papaji, and yet they have not gone completely "quiet".

There are many many teachers nowadays from the Adyashanti and Gangaji franchises going around and holding "satsang". We are now in a time of many teachers and few students. Contrary to people who think we are on the cusp on a new wave of enlightenment in planetary human consciousness (read Eckhart's latest book A New Earth) I believe that we are on the cusp of many egos fooling themselves into believing that they are enlightened. I saw this scene in Lucknow around Papaji and I see it in the videos of meetings with Eckhart. There are people on this website in this category as well. Speaking beautifully about non-duality does not equate to being completely enlightened. After all speaking about the NOW is not so hard once you have had a glimpse or two. But the best teachers remain quiet, they know that the Tao cannot be named and cannot be spoken of. The best teachers are not even known to us, they are completely unknown. I say these things not to take away hope from people but to deflate egos who believe that they are enlightened. As Jesus apparently said "It is harder for a rich man to realize God, than it is for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle". The rich man is the ego, individual and collective.

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Re: Gradual process or spontaneous event ??

Post by innerhike » Wed Feb 13, 2008 7:49 am

Regardless of anything I say, or anything anyone else says, just stay open to the NOW, the simple thing of being as you are.

Don't move here, don't move there. Simply be.

Perhaps in one moment of this practice of no-practice, or lifetime of this practice, you may come to a place where conditioning/mind have evaporated. You can call that place whatever you like and even go on a book tour if you want. :-)

But one has to really crave or want this thing. Sincere seeking, like your hair's on fire and you see a river, you ain't gonna stop to say hello to someone along the way, you will jump right into the river. This is a Zen parable narrated by Papaji.

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Re: Gradual process or spontaneous event ??

Post by D'ray » Thu Feb 14, 2008 3:42 pm

Hey innerhike... I'm ALWAYS reading my own topics ;)

Great stuff. I can believe that it is mostly about habit, but if the suffering is big you can become enlightened also in "fast way".
There's no "I" to become enlightened. The "I" can have spiritual experiences.

DON'T resist the RESISTANCE! The resistance is there. Walk into it. Feel it. Become one with it.

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Re: Gradual process or spontaneous event ??

Post by Onceler » Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:02 pm

My hair caught on fire once. Don't remember anything coming of it....
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: Gradual process or spontaneous event ??

Post by innerhike » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:56 am

Onceler, regarding your hair catching on fire and nothing ever coming of it, I am reminded of all of the fundamentalists in all the religions who take their scriptures literally. I would encourage you to not take Zen parables literally, your scalp might appreciate your consideration. Just kidding. :P

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Re: Gradual process or spontaneous event ??

Post by no won » Fri Feb 15, 2008 2:12 am

My hair caught on fire once. Don't remember anything coming of it....
Is this michael jackson ?

A spontaneous event maybe but a gradual understanding that there is nothing to understand.

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Re: Gradual process or spontaneous event ??

Post by lucy » Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:21 am

Don't let anyone tell you that enlightenment is anymore than a successful presnent moment.

ET

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Re: Gradual process or spontaneous event ??

Post by Onceler » Fri Feb 15, 2008 1:02 pm

thanks Innerhike,

That's one thing to take off the to-do list for the weekend!
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: Gradual process or spontaneous event ??

Post by kiki » Fri Feb 15, 2008 9:14 pm

My hair caught on fire once.
Well, for me at least, I no longer have to worry about that happening. :wink: My biggest concern is that the light reflecting off my head will be distracting to others.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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