Destiny & Callings

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
kozi2
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Destiny & Callings

Post by kozi2 » Wed Jan 02, 2008 2:45 am

Hello eveyone,

I was reading "The Power of Now" for the second time and noticed what Eckhart said on page 179. He said, "accept whatever comes to you woven in the pattern of your destiny". Does that mean we all came to this world with pre designed destiny we need to fulfill? What is the relationships between destiny and callings? What does it mean when someone says this is my calling? Do we all have some kind of callings? If we do, how will we know it?

Thanks for your help
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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by erict » Fri Jan 04, 2008 4:46 pm

Do you really expect somebody else to answer these questions for you?
"Be sincere; don't ask questions out of mere interest. Ask dangerous questions—the ones whose answers could change your life."

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Onceler » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:41 am

I am actually struggling with the same questions. Do we have much choice in what happens to us? Probably not...and yes we do. A paradox?
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Oswald2001 » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:25 am

Here's my take on it.


THE 'OTHER' SIDE...OF THE GREAT DIVIDE

Yes. Everyone has a calling and most don't find it and operate in it.

All really good teachers I have seen are operating within their calling, although they may not always have done so.

(It's funny how some teachers will claim that their is no such thing as a calling when they are very clearly operating within theirs. I would say Neale Donald Walsh is an example of this phenomenon.)

There is a 'connection' necessary to be in alignment within yourself and also with the Universe. Without this 'connection' and the resultant alignment, you will likely never find your calling and would not operate well within it even if you did find it.

Tolle, Byron Katie, John Sherman, Leonard Jacobson, Michael Beckwith and many many others had an 'experience' whereby the 'connection' was made...THEY CROSSED THE GREAT DIVIDE...and are now operating within their callings.

Most people on earth are on the 'this' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE. We hear all about what life is like on the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE. We believe all the descriptions, but, we do not live lives like people who are on the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE.

We cannot. We can only hear about...and possibly dream about it.

There is no hope of operating powerfully within your calling when you are on 'this' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE.

So...how do you cross over to the 'other side?

I do not know.

If I did, I would be there myself and would be very happy to tell you.

Tolle would likely have died a suicide as a result of being stranded on 'this' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE had he not had an 'experience' whereby he crossed THE GREAT DIVIDE.

There is nothing that will take the place of the need for being on the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE.

If you are on the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE, your calling will come naturally.

If you are on 'this' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE, you are out of luck.


People with callings have direction because they have guidance. They are on a path and things unfold for them. It is because they are in alignment with The Universe and it is The Universe that 'does the work'.

I think that most people are born on the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE and the world knocks them for a loop so that they end up on 'this' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE. Lost. Frustrated.

Some people (e.g. Richard Branson, Oprah, Tiger Woods, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Pablo Picasso, etc.) are never really knocked too badly out of alignment with themselves and The Universe, therefore they don't necessarily need an 'experience' to get them to the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE. They are there already.

The 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE is not a paradise on earth or some idealized 'perfect' state. Rather, it is a state wherein your alignment is such that your 'calling' can manifest naturally. Other areas of life may be quite problematic, but, your 'calling' is allowed to unfold.




As I said, this is my take on it.

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Kutso » Sat Jan 05, 2008 1:28 pm

I have two opinions on this subject:

1) There is no calling.

2) There is a calling, and everyone is living it right now.

The two opinions are kinda one and the same. The life situation YOU are living now is what YOU are meant to live. This is what the universe has brought around for YOU. Whatever happens with your life situation is exactly what is meant to happen. YOU don't have any influence on this. YOU only have the illusion that you do. And that's why I also say that there is no calling.
When talking to people about this, I often use an analogy that I think is pretty easy to understand:

Think of everything that is happening like a big game of domino. One domino brick is falling on the next, that is falling on the next, that is falling on the next, and so forth. Every brick is affecting the next one.

That's how your life situation is, one situation affecting how the next situation will be. You can't do anything about it, other then sit back and enjoy the ride. Or in using another analogy: "Sit back and watch the movie." Be the observing consciousness behind everything. Be GOD watching the creation of everyTHING.

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Onceler » Sat Jan 05, 2008 2:25 pm

Yeah, I agree more with Kutso. Perhaps "your calling" is more a spectrum, dependent on how much you resist it. As you begin to resist less, practice presence, life unfolds more fluidly and one replaces egoic striving with the sweep of presence or calling.

For me it comes down to a daily practice of not resisting what is happening or (better yet) what just happened! If this leads to a calling, so be it.
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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Jan 05, 2008 4:59 pm

Water always flows to the sea. The laws of the Universe make it so. It is it's destiny. There are many paths down the mountain with eddies, rapids and gentle pools, but each streams' ultimate destination is the same. There is a path for each of us that carries us where we must go.

To the degree that we accept the flow of our lifes events we live within our calling, and our experience is in harmony. However as we make judgments upon our experience and resist what is, we find ourselves fighting the flow of events and impede our movement within our given path. Our destination is inevitable, but our experience along the way may be influenced by choice. Right or wrong? These are the choices that matter most. Not in one over the other, but in the division and separation that making such choices begets.

Life offers endless opportunities as we move toward our destination. And we may eat of any fruit we find along the way save one. And that is the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil - judgment! For in judgment we believe ourselves superior to creation and that creates our sense of separation and isolation.

Our calling? To be at one with the events of our lives. To live fully and intimately with the choices we make whether it be to turn on the computer, mow the lawn, or join the peace corps. Something from our essential nature will draw us to meaningful decisions so long as that nature is not obscured by judgment and the appearance of separation from now.

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Oswald2001 » Sat Jan 05, 2008 6:10 pm

I think you can be in a state of acceptance and relative peace with the flow of your life. No matter which direction it leads. You can accept and live in relative peace with 'missing' your calling.

That's not the same as living your calling, though.

And water from rivers all lead to the sea...eventually. True.

But, rivers can be diverted from their natural courses just as most of the lives on the planet are diverted from their natural course.

I have seen, watched and studied people that operate powerfully within their calling. For many years. All my life, really.

There is a HUGE difference between acceptance of whatever is...when you have missed your calling...and operating powerfully within your calling. A HUGE difference. GIGANTIC.



Maybe, if you live 1,000 more lives, you will eventually get it right. Who knows?

But, that won't help with your calling in this life.


There are 2 lives:

1.) The life you 'could' have had or 'should' have had...if you had remained 'on course'. (i.e. The 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE.)

2.) The life you actually have...as a result of being thrown 'off course'. (i.e. 'This' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE.)

Certainly, it is possible to misinterpret the circumstances and occurences in our lives through judgement of what is good and what is evil. After all, many supposed 'bad' things can turn out to be 'blessings in disguise' and really ideal preparations for our calling.


But, let's not miss this point...


Just as certainly, you can be thrown 'off course' in your life and miss your calling entirely. It appears to me that this is exactly what happens to most of the world.



It is often said, "Be patient. It's all preparation. Don't worry. It's going according 'to plan'."

The only problem is, most of the people to whom this is being said, have missed their calling and will die that way. And the well intended words are like giving opiates to a terminal cancer patient in order to make their last days more comfortable.

It is surely more kind than saying, "Sorry. You missed your real life." But...it is NOT accurate.



There is a lot of speculation and opinion from 'this' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE.

I'm sure most of that will change dramatically if/when you are operating powerfully from your calling on the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE.






*** DISCLAIMER: Just my take on things. I could be wrong. I've been wrong before. 8)

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Kutso » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:21 pm

Dear Oswald2001.

I want you to tell me something. If there is a 'true calling', as you states that it does, and you have not reached this 'true calling'. Are you not resisting the now as it is? Isn't that like saying 'Why is this happening to me? I'm not meant for this. It's not supposed to be like this'.

I say, if there is a true calling, it's the same for everyone. Your true calling is realizing your true nature. Your true calling is to know thyself for what you really are.
Your true calling is also whatever happens right now, because that's what the universe has brought to you. Look around you as destiny unfolds. You are perfect as you are. You don't have to do anything. Just watch.

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Oswald2001 » Sat Jan 05, 2008 8:59 pm

Kutso wrote:Dear Oswald2001.

I want you to tell me something. If there is a 'true calling', as you states that it does, and you have not reached this 'true calling'. Are you not resisting the now as it is? Isn't that like saying 'Why is this happening to me? I'm not meant for this. It's not supposed to be like this'.

I say, if there is a true calling, it's the same for everyone. Your true calling is realizing your true nature. Your true calling is to know thyself for what you really are.
Your true calling is also whatever happens right now, because that's what the universe has brought to you. Look around you as destiny unfolds. You are perfect as you are. You don't have to do anything. Just watch.

Kutso

Kutso,

Maybe you are right. Maybe not.

Some TV preachers will con their 'flocks' out of their last dime while promising prosperity and heavenly bliss...just around the corner. Just wait and you will see. Not yet. Just a little bit longer. Be patient. Don't worry. It's coming. Everything is perfect and going according to 'plan'.

Of course, things are not perfect and nothing is around the corner but awakening to treachery. They don't tell their 'marks' that the 'plan' is just to get their money...under any pretense.

****************************


"Isn't that like saying 'Why is this happening to me? I'm not meant for this. It's not supposed to be like this'."

Yes it is.

Sometimes you are on the wrong road. Haven't you ever been driving to a destination, something 'told you' that things were not right, you glance at the map and realize that you took the wrong road...or were on the right road, but, heading in the wrong direction?

Something tells you that something is wrong...because...something is wrong.

If you accidentally fall into a fire and your body, mind and soul screams, "I'm not meant for this. It's not supposed to be like this'.", I would believe your body, mind and soul.

Or you could just lay in the fire and let things unfold because 'everything is perfect just as it is'.

**********************************

"I say, if there is a true calling, it's the same for everyone. Your true calling is realizing your true nature. Your true calling is to know thyself for what you really are."

I would agree.

And then to unfold from that space. If you are in that space, then you don't have to do anything because The Universe will 'do the work'.

An acorn will naturally and automatically become an oak tree when conditions are right. It just unfolds.

Humans will become what they 'should' be and operate powerfully within their calling only when conditions are right. Most often, in this world, they are not right for this to occur.

That's why we see so few people operating powerfully within their calling.

Why do people read and listen to Tolle? Because he is operating powerfully from within his calling and it is a rare and wonderous thing to behold. To see The Universe flow and manifest through a person. It's more than just the delivery of information and/or data. There is the unmistakably mark of The Universe.

If everything were perfect, far more people would be doing the same. Quite naturally.

As I said, I have studied this all my life.

When you meet people that are operating powerfully within their calling, you are quite aware that you a watching a phenomenon that involves them being used by The Universe.

You don't see this to a comparable degree in the overall population.

There is a GREAT DIVIDE.

*******************************

Sometimes it feels like the unfolding is inhibited or stopped...but, it's really not.

Sometimes it feels like the unfolding is inhibited or stopped...because it really is inhibited and stopped.
******************************

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Kutso » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:05 am

Oswald2001 wrote:Sometimes you are on the wrong road. Haven't you ever been driving to a destination, something 'told you' that things were not right, you glance at the map and realize that you took the wrong road...or were on the right road, but, heading in the wrong direction?

Something tells you that something is wrong...because...something is wrong.

I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Wright or wrong, is only a mind game. Ideas in your mind. Illusions one might say. To say that this shouldnt be happening to me. That this is wrong, is to deny reality. Reality has brought about this, and here comes you saying it is wrong? God has brought this about, and what? You're saying this is wrong too? Could God be wrong maybe?

Oswald2001 wrote:If you accidentally fall into a fire and your body, mind and soul screams, "I'm not meant for this. It's not supposed to be like this'.", I would believe your body, mind and soul.

Or you could just lay in the fire and let things unfold because 'everything is perfect just as it is'.
I wouldn't know what I would do. It's impossible for me to know. I can speculate and say 'I think I would get out of the fire' because it's the most probable reaction my body and mind will have. But bear in mind the analogy of the Domino game. It's only a reaction on events happening before it. Just as those events were reactions happening before that, and so on. Just as me typing this is a reaction on previous events.
Don't you see? You don't get have the choice of lying there thinking 'I accept lying here and burn to death'. Free will is just another illusion. Another mind game.

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Oswald2001 » Sun Jan 06, 2008 12:59 am

Kutso wrote:
I've said it before and I'll say it again:

Wright or wrong, is only a mind game. Ideas in your mind. Illusions one might say. To say that this shouldnt be happening to me. That this is wrong, is to deny reality. Reality has brought about this, and here comes you saying it is wrong? God has brought this about, and what? You're saying this is wrong too? Could God be wrong maybe?

Kutso
Who knows? Maybe you're right. I just don't know.


I know this, though.

The 'real self' realized in every acorn produces an oak tree.

The 'calling' of every acorn by unfolding from it's 'true self' 'should' be evidenced in an oak tree.

However, the plain truth of it is...very few acorns actually make it to oak tree status.

Very few acorns operate powerfully from within their 'calling'.

All the DNA is there. All the instructions to make an oak tree. Every thing needed to produce an oak tree is there, but, conditions are almost universally wrong for an oak tree to result.

The same is true for people.

Within each person is the 'acorn/seed' of a calling by way of realization of the true self and unfolding from that space.

But, it rarely happens.

Acorns...and people...rarely make it across THE GREAT DIVIDE.

Oak trees can tell acorns all about how things are on the 'other' side of THE GREAT DIVIDE, but, almost all acorns will remain on 'this' side until the DNA deteriorates through time and weather and the acorns crumble into dust.

As it is with acorns...so it is with people.

Is this the will of God too?

Possibly so. I have always thought God has a rather large cruel streak to torture us with unfulfilled lives.

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by no won » Sun Jan 06, 2008 6:51 am

I have always thought God has a rather large cruel streak to torture us with unfulfilled lives.
So who are you to judge God and our lives. Maybe its this very judgemnt that leaves a feeling of a unfulfilled life, when it is lived through a mind filled with wrong thought of cruel streaks and torture. This is only an observation not judgemnt.

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by Kutso » Sun Jan 06, 2008 11:20 am

No won has a point. I mean who is God? An old man with a large beard sitting up in heaven watching us? No. God = Consciousness, Awareness, Stillness, Space and so forth. I actually prefer the words consciousness/awareness before the word God, cause as Eckhart says the word God has been misused for thousands of years.

Anyhow, consiousness is in everything. And consiousness doesn't have a certain take on things. It doesn't seperate right from wrong. It's the one and the same. Everything is right, and everything is also wrong. Everything that happens, happens in awareness, happens to awareness, happens by awareness. And therefor to say that this is not what is meant to be, is awareness denying itself.
Ofcourse it's nothing wrong with this. This is meant to happen, otherwise it wouldn't happen. Everything that is meant to happen, happens. Saying 'this isn't meant to happen' is meant to happen. So it's both wrong and right, at the same time.
Only the ego has a goal. Awareness couldn't care less what that goal is, and at the same time it cares about everything.

If the acorn doesn't sprout into an oak tree, does that mean that it's true calling has not been forfilled? No, it's true calling is to just be an acorn, otherwise you would sprout into an oak tree.
If you don't get enlightened in this lifetime, does that mean that your true calling has not been forfilled? No, your true calling is to be unenlightened, just as you are. Otherwise you would be enlightened.

Things can't be more clear than this. Watch everything as a whole, and you will realize it is so.

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Re: Destiny & Callings

Post by fifi » Tue Jan 08, 2008 9:37 pm

Oswald, if all acorns from say, one tree, were to sprout into oak trees, surely there would be no room for all seeds to become full potential oak tree growth anyway. On the other hand, a gentle breeze in the right direction wouldn't go amiss... :mrgreen: which brings me back to your quote....

'people with callings have direction because they have guidance'

so what form/s could this guidance take?

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