Psychadelic Drugs and Enlightenment

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
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Webwanderer
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Re: Psychadelic Drugs and Enlightenment

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:25 pm

Lee, the moment I put a label on perception it becomes less than what it is, so words risk misperception. I don't look at life in terms of enlightenment but rather of clarity. Consider "awakening". As much as there is an awakened state, it is relative to a perspective of living asleep in ego identity. But I still have moments of both ego identity and awakened presence. Then there is an enhanced clarity that perceives as spacious being. Yes I can and do perceive from this perspective, but it is not automatic and is recognizable (as yet) only in silent awareness. In fact I cringe at the word "I" in this context, as there is no "me" sense there. What is present is a sense of being and a spacious perspective. Clarity and understanding is enhanced, but attempts to apply word discriptions fall short of the experience.

There is nothing new or unique here. Tolle has said repeatedly that we are the "Now" moment. Awakening and increasing clarity lead inexorably to that realization. And in that realization form is seen as content within that awareness we are.

WW

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Re: Psychadelic Drugs and Enlightenment

Post by Sighclone » Sat Jun 07, 2008 7:13 pm

WW -
In fact I cringe at the word "I" in this context, as there is no "me" sense there. What is present is a sense of being and a spacious perspective. Clarity and understanding is enhanced, but attempts to apply word discriptions fall short of the experience.

There is nothing new or unique here. Tolle has said repeatedly that we are the "Now" moment. Awakening and increasing clarity lead inexorably to that realization. And in that realization form is seen as content within that awareness we are.
Well, words may be limiting, but this little group of them comes as close as anything ever written, that I have read, to nailing it.

Thanks (again),

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Psychadelic Drugs and Enlightenment

Post by Aware_Then » Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:16 am

Thanks WW
What you thinks on the outside is actually on the inside!!

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Re: Psychadelic Drugs and Enlightenment

Post by HermitLoon » Sun Jun 08, 2008 3:34 pm

“Enlightenment” is like a sunrise.
The gradual illumination of Everything,
including the observer itself.
Awareness of Everything that already is and always was,
even before - in the dark.
Peace

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Re: Psychadelic Drugs and Enlightenment

Post by iwashko » Sun Jul 20, 2008 6:12 am

Just from my own experience. It would seem, that if one was to take a mind altering substance, perhaps for the first time. Actually, lets keep it at that, the first or first few times.. One could pretty much assume that that person's attention is going to be in the present moment. So before the experience of a psychedelic drug even begins, the user is already constantly on the alert and observing everything happening within their field of perception. It's not surprising, that with this "living in the now" setting, the LSD experience will probably turn out to be a favorable one.
Ultimately though, the user may associate these enlightened states with the drug itself, and one day may take the drug in an attempt to recreate the experience. Only this time, they are not fully present in their beings. The mind and the dormant pain body are running at full capacity. Thus, the unavoidable, bad trip ensues. It is likely that there never was such a thing as "bad acid." But only the thinking mind being onslaughted with magnified sense perceptions. I find it rather unfortunate that I dabbled with such things as a teenager, I was swept away with the notion that LSD created enlightened states. I of course did take it on one occasion, expecting to be swept into the field of enlightenment, only to find myself swimming a whirlwind of mind activity and pain. It's unfortunate the majority of users whom are attracted to these drugs, and whom they are available to, are kids. I know i wouldnt want my child to experience such abrasive sensual perceptions. As Eckart called it, "violent."

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Re: Psychadelic Drugs and Enlightenment

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:33 pm

Well said iwashko, welcome to the forum.

WW

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Re: Psychadelic Drugs and Enlightenment

Post by Chariot » Sun Jul 20, 2008 11:53 pm

Iwashko, that is very profound and observant.

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Re: Psychadelic Drugs and Enlightenment

Post by doug » Sat Jan 24, 2009 9:05 pm

http://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/Press_re ... 11_06.html

New studies of the now illegal psylocibin mushroom recently allowed by the U.S. government points to a possibility that psychedelic plants and compounds may in reality be very important medicines useful to a society that knows how to administer them.

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Re: Psychadelic Drugs and Enlightenment

Post by Sighclone » Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:13 pm

Interesting results!

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Psychadelic Drugs and Enlightenment

Post by domokato » Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:50 am

under very defined conditions, with careful preparation, you can safely and fairly reliably occasion what’s called a primary mystical experience that may lead to positive changes in a person.
I wonder what those "defined conditions" are...I've done mushrooms before and I don't think I've had a "primary mystical experience", whatever that is, although my experiences with shrooms have been very spiritually-charged for sure!
~housecat

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Re: Psychadelic Drugs and Enlightenment

Post by Glycine » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:58 pm

Hello Domokato,
By "defined conditions" they mainly refer to using the same dose (per body weight) and the same environment. The study was conveniently done using only people who had active "spiritual practices". About 60% of these had a mystical experience when using the drug. I guess, if someone is into spiritualism, s/he is more likely to have a mystical experience. If one thinks day and night about "spirits", s/he will eventually see something - especially when mind-altering substances are used. The brain is even able to feel limbs that do not exist anymore (even if the limbs were missing since birth).
As I mentioned in another post, these drugs do not create any new function/information in the brain: they only amplify or inhibit existing information processing routes.
This is not to say that mystical experiences do not exist - I'm just assuming that many of them are illusions in the brain.

Of course, we can ask ourselves: can we find something without looking for it? And if we are looking for it, did we really find it, or "stuff" just appeared because we were looking for it? We can continue discussing all the way to "free will".
Maybe we can find something only if it has already been given to us!

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Re: Psychadelic Drugs and Enlightenment

Post by doug » Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:42 pm

My experience with psychedelics was that they allowed me to recognize the truth very early in life through personal experiences of oneness and God.

Plants provide us critical support in our lives from oxygen, food, health support, and medicines. Many believe that psychoactive plant compounds have special properties that either convey a special message or allow us a clearer view of ourselves, the world around us, and God. Some consider that magic mushrooms may have been instrumental to human survival through the perfection of hunting skills, enhanced sexual activity, and ultimately the development of language (Terence McKenna "Archaic Revival").

It has also been convincingly argued that psychedelics may have been at the very root of religious development in the East (Soma).

"When we explore the early history of religion and examine the various holy scriptures of different faiths, then we find mentioned mysterious substances with divine connotations, which were either eaten or drunk. So in the Bible we have the enigmatic manna or the food that fell from heaven. In the Bhagavad Gita and the Rig Veda we find described the Soma drink, which allowed people to enter into the divine. And in early Zoroastrianism we find mention of the mysterious Huoma, used by the Magi for their sacred rituals. When we examine the mystery traditions of ancient Greece we discover the Kykeon, the beverage that played a central role in the Eleusian mysteries. And going over to ancient Egypt we correspondingly find the use of the plant, the Blue Lotus of the Nile, by the Egyptian high priests. This Blue Lotus plant may be related to the lotus of the 'Lotus eaters' in the classical Greek myth Odysseus. When mythology is understood as spiritual allegory then this would make perfect sense. If the journey of the mythological hero is a journey of spiritual development and discovery then a visit to the land of the lotus eaters can be understood as a reference to some psychedelic substance. Also it is worth mentioning here that 'Soma' which was mentioned earlier, means 'to press out and extract' in Sanskrit. And there exist ancient Sanskrit texts that describe the Lotus plant as soma. So it is reasonable to deduce that in antiquity, something was pressed out and extracted from lotus plants, which was then prepared as a beverage and ingested. It is very possible that the Lotus eaters and the Soma drinkers were actually partaking of the same psychoactive ingredient. Moving on to the ancient civilization of Babylon we find the myth of Gilgamesh, which is the oldest recorded story known to man. In the tale, the hero Gilgamesh is told to seek out the plant of immortality, another obvious reference to a psychedelic plant."


We can't be certain at this point of all the benefits and uses for psychedelics however much work has been done in the area of treatment for alcoholism, depression, and other human social/psychological ailments.
http://www.economist.com/science/displa ... d=12792611

MAPS is one organization that I am aware of that is heading up worldwide research of MDMA (ecstacy), LSD, and other psychoactive medicines.
http://www.maps.org/

Governments should step aside on this and allow the research to proceed.

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Re: Psychadelic Drugs and Enlightenment

Post by piercej » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:07 pm

I'll ask the forgiveness of you all while I indulge in some questions (which may be an irrelavent sidetrack) about pyschodelic substances...

During the study of spirituality, I came across this topic on psychodelics, and dismissed all of it except one part, a relatively new discovery of the potential of DMT (dimethyltriptamine). Apparently, virutally all living animals produce DMT naturally (by the pineal gland in the brain), especially during the sleep cycle, and right before death among other times. It is also found in most plants to my understanding, and is manufactured mainly from roots and grasses. Apparently it is non addictive, obviously 100% natural, and has served as a doorway into "violence free" enlightened states for many people, in fact, many testamonies claim a life changing awareness and understanding from just one experience, and these are average people who for the most part do not make the pursuit of true spirituality a focus of their lives as many of us try to. The experience lasts only 10 minutes or so before fading rapidly, and leaves no after effects. Remembering all of the details proves difficult, as if from a dream, but the main insights are retained.

Has anyone else heard of this compound? It seems that the label of "drug" doesn't apply any more than calling seratonin or adrenaline a "drug". I have to say honestly, that I would try this at home alone after a meditation. I simply can't ignore the potential benefit, despite the lack of a 100% understanding, and the risk of the consequences of possessing a substance in the same legal category as heroine.

Many spiritual teachers past and present have commented on the positive aspects of certain psychodelics, so there must be something of benefit here...

Insights?

Thank you

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Re: Psychadelic Drugs and Enlightenment

Post by doug » Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:32 pm

"DMT, The Spirit Molecule" by Strassman may be of interest to you.

DMT is present in our brains and many, many natural sources, some of which possess high content and used to extract the compound from in a fairly simple process. The "how to" is available on the Internet as well as the plants to extract it from which are not illegal (but the DMT is of course).

The effects of DMT, mushrooms, LSD, are similar, conciousness expanding, and safe providing the appropriate preps. These medicines, compounds, sacraments or whatever we choose to call them can and do provide life experiences that are usually association with epiphanies, mystical, religious, life changing, etc.

The time duration you describe would be from smoking DMT extract. Ingesting it lasts much longer as it is combined with other natural compounds such as in ayahuasca, the brew used safely by South Americans in religious ceremonies for centuries.

It's a fascinating topic but the experiences are even more so.

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Re: Psychadelic Drugs and Enlightenment

Post by Sighclone » Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:13 am

40 Years ago, I had very revealing experience with mescaline. I do remember seeing the world as though it were displayed on a screen. Of course, I was with a bunch of yahoos fooling around mindlessly with various psychoactive drugs, and I was not particularly evolved in any way.

I think drugs can introduce a temporary condition of unity consciousness. Then it goes away. I entertain the possibility that controlled used of chemicals could adjust brain function to conveniently disable the egoic mental grinding, and perhaps facilitate awakening. They would likely be used in a controlled environment with strictly controlled dosages, absolute limits on repeated indulgence, and safety measures (as many as could be assembled) in place. Just a guess, and that clinic will not be open for business tomorrow.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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