Couple of questions

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
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Re: Couple of questions

Post by Larryfroot » Thu Jun 12, 2008 11:30 pm

Educating children in awareness and peace would spell disaster for the consumer based economy that needs to run well for the politicians to be elected and re-elected according to public perception of how they have handled said economy. Basically, the powers that be have a vested interest in now consciousness staying out there with the tree huggers and yogurt weavers. Or else it gets handed to some corporations who would do market research to find out how people prefer their now consciousness. Nasally insertable? A range of day-glo colours? Bluetooth capable?

Its the leaders who need convincing by results on the ground. The recent-ish experiement with TM in cutting crime in Washington DC is exactly the way to go. Eckhart on Oprah again, fantastic. Here in the UK we do make-over reality shows - depressing but true. But I would love to see a crack team of experts go into a failing school and teach the kids and their teachers. There have been programmes in the North of England that have done just that, although in a more restrained manner, and the results have been so encouraging. And those kids have a skill for life.

Well thats my soabox creaking and groaning underneath me. better step off it before I have an accident.
Many a mickle muches a markle.

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Re: Couple of questions

Post by steve247 » Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:17 am

The consumer-based economy may diminish but other areas in the econonmy could well flourish, and as you mentioned, crime would decrease which would also be a benefit to the economy through less expenditure on prisons/police. What about the benefits to the health service? I think there could well be a net-benefit to the econonmy. Companies would benefit from employees less stressed and more productive, there would be more harmony in the workplace. I'm sure there are currently companies that have prospered due to a workforce adopting meditation.

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Re: Couple of questions

Post by Sighclone » Fri Jun 13, 2008 10:00 pm

My guess is that this will be a slow process - slower than ET suggests.
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Couple of questions

Post by ib42 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 8:17 am

I have the same view of most people I know. They seem more comfortable living their personal identities, and have absolutely no need for any sort of change. Indeed, they bristle when I rock their little boats with my endless quest for more...more what? Well, money would be nice, but I guess I want a burning bush experience with a guarantee that my worries are over. I sound pretty lost here, and I am.
The concept of the pain body and 'clock time', with it's attendant ties to misery is not even given a passing thought by these 'finished product' people, but for me it's a constant seesaw....up for a fleeting moment then waaay down when reality of my desolation dawns.
I am very sure that the entire commercialization of this enlightenment movement is a turn-off for me. Why indeed should an enlightened soul like Tolle need bodyguards, superstar trappings and huge arenas selling expensive tickets for basically the same old, same old? Maharishi? Rajneesh? Oral Roberts? Osteen? The whole evangelical network?
Just the book should have satisfied him, having related his personal experience and discoveries, which are basically rehashed versions of a very old, timeless message. But, no, he needs an Oprah to further his ambitions, and hers. Perfect pair!
Bah, humbug!

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Re: Couple of questions

Post by steve247 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:33 am

ib42 wrote:I have the same view of most people I know. They seem more comfortable living their personal identities, and have absolutely no need for any sort of change. Indeed, they bristle when I rock their little boats with my endless quest for more...more what? Well, money would be nice, but I guess I want a burning bush experience with a guarantee that my worries are over. I sound pretty lost here, and I am.
The concept of the pain body and 'clock time', with it's attendant ties to misery is not even given a passing thought by these 'finished product' people, but for me it's a constant seesaw....up for a fleeting moment then waaay down when reality of my desolation dawns.
I am very sure that the entire commercialization of this enlightenment movement is a turn-off for me. Why indeed should an enlightened soul like Tolle need bodyguards, superstar trappings and huge arenas selling expensive tickets for basically the same old, same old? Maharishi? Rajneesh? Oral Roberts? Osteen? The whole evangelical network?
Just the book should have satisfied him, having related his personal experience and discoveries, which are basically rehashed versions of a very old, timeless message. But, no, he needs an Oprah to further his ambitions, and hers. Perfect pair!
Bah, humbug!
But surely the most effective way of getting the message across is the key. A couple of books in a sea of millions just won't have the same impact as a global webcast as with Oprah, and that was free for all! I don't believe Eckhart is driven by fame and money, he just needs to pay his way to deliver his message as effectively as possible, and in today's world it normally costs a lot of money to do that.

I agree, so many people seem happy with their identities, why would they want to give them up? I wasn't happy with mine and thankfully I'm on the right path now.
Last edited by steve247 on Thu Jul 10, 2008 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Couple of questions

Post by steve247 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 9:38 am

Having just posted the above message, I spotted the advert below for an "Enlightenment Ring" :roll: Someone tell me Eckhart isn't profitting from it.
Last edited by steve247 on Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Couple of questions

Post by Crystalrays » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:39 pm

I do admire Eckharts synopsis of humanity and its all embracing capacity to dissolve fear, anger, guilt and vengeance. Whether it ever will is intriguing.

Maybe some societies feel the need to change more readily due to declines in their economies etc.? Ones whose economies are booming may be all in favour of consumer progress and decades away from even contemplating the 'now' we are speaking of. And remember some of those peoples are the most numerous on Earth and have experienced generations of hardships already - so why return to virtual poverty?? may loom large in their minds.

I wonder to what extent the questions about the 'now' become unavoidable for each of us and particularly for whole societies/New Earth?

Maybe it takes downturns in our lifestyle in order to even plant seeds about the 'now' before ever expecting a reality to emerge from it.

What , for example would be the reality if whole societies adopted it? Much of our support services are funded and developed by financial reliance on consumerism. Is Eckhart anticipating learning as a free gift friends provide for each other ? and if one needs open heart surgery will there be trained members of the public to respond to the need or is nature to be allowed to run its course? Lots of issues like this exist about any New Earth society but are really minor considerations compared to any collective eutopia. Surely managing such a massive operation would require much energy and organisation and less meditation and silent contemplation. In fact I do not know for it is difficult to visualise!

The infrastructure of a society living a 'now' existence is difficult to imagine as a collective reality absent the driving force to aquire more money - even Eckharts teachings are at a price in all kinds of ways - I'm still unsure what to make of it. Is he investing it in some world wide awakening project?? And the future threat of hostile others is always an unknown fear that could become a reality and even destroy peoples who are attempting to live it. Groups who see the 'New Earth' as a perfect opportunity to exact some dominance and power without resistance.Take Buddhism as an example where a whole nation were dispersed by force.

So for a New Earth to emerge, one wonders about the uprisings of any hostile groups and how plausible it is to expect humanity to deal with them by passively allowing them to display their aggression and even submit to their dictatorship or genocide.

The alternative is to become less in the 'now' and continue as we are - which is unsustainable - a conundrum indeed.

For now I will leave the now for you to decide.

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Re: Couple of questions

Post by ib42 » Thu Jul 10, 2008 6:48 pm

You can just bet he is! It's the capitalistic way, after all.
I still believe the book should have been enough to spread his 'good news'. Not a couple, but millions. After all, it is a best-seller! Had he kept a a reasonable amount for his sustenance, and sold the rest at a very low price so more could afford it, he would have convinced me of his sincerity. And Oprah's flamboyant free 'event' might have been free, but those damn commercials for post-it notes, etc., put me off on the very first day. These two, like lots of other charlatans, are interested first in their own advancement. They are true egomaniacs! Too bad, isn't it?


steve247 wrote:Having just posted the above message, I spotted the advert below for an "Enlightenment Ring" :roll: Someone tell me Eckhart isn't profitting from it.

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Re: Couple of questions

Post by Webwanderer » Fri Jul 11, 2008 1:31 pm

ib42 wrote:You can just bet he is! It's the capitalistic way, after all.
I still believe the book should have been enough to spread his 'good news'. Not a couple, but millions. After all, it is a best-seller! Had he kept a a reasonable amount for his sustenance, and sold the rest at a very low price so more could afford it, he would have convinced me of his sincerity. And Oprah's flamboyant free 'event' might have been free, but those damn commercials for post-it notes, etc., put me off on the very first day. These two, like lots of other charlatans, are interested first in their own advancement. They are true egomaniacs! Too bad, isn't it?
Charlatans, egomaniacs; that's a pretty harsh judgment ib42. I'm not sure how such a cynical view serves you if your purpose is awakening. Maybe it would be better to focus on the message if your having such trouble with the imagined motives of the messsanger. Diamonds remain diamonds regardless of who carries them.


steve247 wrote:Having just posted the above message, I spotted the advert below for an "Enlightenment Ring" :roll: Someone tell me Eckhart isn't profitting from it.
Although I do not condon nor condemn the ad in our forum, it has certainly caused many a raised eyebrow. I recommend you click on the link and read the internal links: "about us" and "core commitments" for a better picture of why it was allowed to be here.

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Re: Couple of questions

Post by steve247 » Fri Jul 11, 2008 2:17 pm

Webwanderer wrote: Although I do not condon nor condemn the ad in our forum, it has certainly caused many a raised eyebrow. I recommend you click on the link and read the internal links: "about us" and "core commitments" for a better picture of why it was allowed to be here.
I've read what you recommended and have taken it onboard. However, I think it is very much in conflict with his teachings and does them a disservice. He talks about ways to enter the now, noone needs to buy an expensive ring to help them. Much better to practice without any attachment to an object.

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