Not ready to let go?

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cubsfan45
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Not ready to let go?

Post by cubsfan45 » Thu Oct 23, 2008 5:52 am

This journey of uncovering the real self sure has its bumps in the road. About two weeks ago I had an intense meditation with a teacher who tried to bring me into presence. This set off a chain reaction that sent me to a mental hospital for over a week and am now back on meds for bipolar and szchizophrenia.

What I recall is riding my bike for an hour, then driving to my parents house for a Yom Kippur family dinner - although I was not in the right state of mind to interact with people - I felt torn between the world of form and acknowleding my formless self. When I walked into my parents' house, a kind of energy, perhaps paranoia pervaded the air. I heard statements like "he's high, he's doing drugs again", even though I've been clean for almost 3 years.

Being that I wasn't in the communicating mood, I went and laid down on the couch - I then realized that I didn't want to be there, and when I went to leave I realized that my dad had taken my car keys. This lead to us getting into a fight, the police coming over to see what was going on, taking me to the hospital, doing a drug test, then going back home with my parents.

That night, for God knows whatever reason, I had the scariest experience of my life it seemed. I woke up in the middle of the night screaming "STOP IT!!! STOP IT!!!!!!!!!" with such pain and fear like I was enduring the worst torture ever known to human kind.

Was this my Ego clutching for survival and trying to prevent my true self from being unveiled?
Could this have been just a coincidence?

If I am one to believe in "The Doors" song "Break on through to the other side", was this the pain that comes with being in between the two states of being, the side I've been living my entire existence, and the other side which is Presence?

Back when I was in college I went to a lady that does Massage and Energy Healing and I recall her saying something to the attune that sometimes it is dangerous to open the "third eye", or "the mind's eye" before the individual/soul is 100% ready. Could this be what this whole incident was about?

Furthermore, after this experience my Psy. Doctor has me back on meds for bipolar/schizophrenia.

If all these feelings, emotions, and reactions are merely a biproduct of my egoic mind trying to hold on, is it fair to assume that the meds I'm on won't be necessary once I/my true self/Being reaches a point of being rooted in Being?

Thanks for everything, I'm eternally thankful for all the support that many of you have provided.
~Eugene

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Re: Not ready to let go?

Post by Sighclone » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:28 am

Wow, tough weekend. I think your parents should go to the psch sessions with you - at least one or two so they don't over-react. What was to prevent you from just leaving even though your dad had your kar keys? You could get them back the next day. Just leave and catch a cab. You did not want to be there - that was your main impulse. Yes, it was normal to get mad at him. But before acting on your anger you might have said: "OK I'm pissed, and this is an infantalizing gesture from Dad, if I let it be that and react from my painbody. You could have just said - "I'm leaving - I'll be back tomorrow - keep the keys since you just took them without much cause". If they bar the door, then that's grounds for calling police - it's called kidnapping. You are an adult - you can leave, keys or no keys.

When people refuse to play "games" (Eric Berne), the level of the games escalates. In my opinion, you desereve to have them join you in a session with a mediator. And also review with your psychiatrist the precise reasons he put you back on the meds and what behavior he needs to see to take you off. I've been on psychotropic phenothiazines (40 years ago) - I know how mind-numbing and listless they make you feel. I don't have much more information, particularly older information, but I didn't hear much here to warrant a "thought disorder prevention" regimen. Maybe there is more I don't know. Ask your psychiatrist to read "Toward a Psychology of Awakening" by John Welwood, PhD (clinical psychologist for 35 years). He owes you that. (Of course, after you have read it yourself.)


Most of those comments above were not particularly "nondualist." One nondual perspective is "accept" his having the keys. (But not letting you leave is another thing entirely.) The screaming in the night sounds gestalt - could have been anything including just a bad dream. But maybe it was your ego. Who knows. It's past. You can choose to dwell on it or not.

Good luck, this too shall pass,
Namaste,

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

letitgo
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Re: Not ready to let go?

Post by letitgo » Thu Oct 23, 2008 6:37 pm

It's difficult to add much to a post after Andy. His responses are quite definitive with just the necessary combination of realism and spirituality. However, I'll try to add my opinion with regard to a possible acceleration of our individual schedule of the enlightenment process.

Who's to say who is ready for enlightenment? Who's to say what level of awareness you need to grow and learn your own personal life lessons? Recently, I've been reading Backwards, by Nanci Danison. (Another Andy reference). In this book she relates her recall of a near death experience and the almost total recall of these events. It's such an interesting view of the balance between being a human animal and a being of light. Yes, balance. She aludes to this balance in her recollection of how fearless we are in true spirit form, so fearless for example that were it not for our human instinct of fear, we might jump off a cliff because we miss being able to fly! Learning to manage that balance, and loving the process is our job here on earth. Being in a state of bliss while doing our job is what I would call very close to enlightenment. Something, by the way, I'm still attempting to accomplish.

I would only suggest you to listen to your heart and the wonderful people on this forum who vehemently repeat the urging to accept what is... the now, and don't allow anyone to guide you into any enlightenment to which you're not completely comfortable. We don't want you in such a dizzy bliss that you loose those necessary human traits and can't properly function!

Sincerely, Norm
To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world.

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Re: Not ready to let go?

Post by letitgo » Thu Oct 23, 2008 7:07 pm

I just realized another point with regard to your dream. I'll preface my response to your dream by saying that since I was a child, I've always known the meaning of dreams. I won't go in to all the reasons why, suffice as to say that with any dream interpretation, you are the judge and jury. The interpretation will either resonate within you as truth or it will not.

There are many types of dreams. Most are telling you the exact current state of affairs with body, mind and spirit. No matter how bizarre the means, your spirit and mind create the exact scenario to let you know how you feel on a deeper level. I feel your dream of, "stop it", and the feeling of deep fear and pain and torture are a message from you, to stop. The actions you are taking on a conscious level, during your waking hours, are torture to you on a deeper level. The intensity of this dream is the exact intensity with which you, on a deeper level, wants to get your attention on this subject. The conscious activity which is causing this pain should be readily recognizable to you upon reading this. Stop, relax, let it go, and you will feel better inside.

Again, you are the dreamer, and you can either accept or discard the above.

Sincerely, Norm
To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world.

James
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Re: Not ready to let go?

Post by James » Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:27 pm

Hi Eugene
Hope you are feeling better now. After reading this post, and your prior messages, I have a few observations which may or may not resonate with you.

1) It sounds like you have this idea (which by the way is not uncommon), that spiritual awakening will be another form of an altered state of consciousness. Really the natural state is much more down to earth than that. Adyashanti likes to refer to it as "Garden Variety" awakened awareness. You mentioned that your meditation prior to your recent breakdown was intense, as if effort was being expended to create a state of consciousness or a new high? Many of us here on this forum like Adyashanti's True Meditation (audio format is preferable in my view). It really is very consistent with Tolle's approach to meditating, but it lays it out clearly and concisely. What it boils down to is complete letting go, without manipulating thoughts or experiences. That is why it is called the "natural state". It is a state that is very grounded, yet very alert and intelligent to what Is.

2) You suggested that you had an interest in awakening and that was what was fueling your drug use. Now it seems you are getting a crash course in dissolution of ego. Awakening is more about emptying out rather than adding something. So instead of regretting the chain of events that brought you to this point, you can welcome this diminishment of ego and personal will, as an opportunity to know and express the truth of being. That is not to imply intentionally making your condition worse, but rather accepting where you are at now. A complete surrender to spirit is what we are all called to do eventually, one way or another. Some get dragged kicking and screaming (so to speak). Suffering serves a noble purpose in that sense, it wears down the ego. As we begin to awaken we actually can see the suffering in the light of gratitude, since it was the doorway to the self.

3) You may do well to find a more comprehensive approach to your health care. Many city hospitals have embarked on "Integrative Medicine" clinics, that use a a variety of non-invasive, complimentary modalities to treat people. I am not referring to New Age healing centers that sometimes are based more on superstition. Integrative medicine uses nutrition, acupuncture, massage therapy, endocrinology, counseling and more. These centers are run by medical doctors and they can prescribe medicine too if needed, but they will generally use the least toxic or safest approach. They even encourage spirituality and meditation as part of the treatment program. They treat the patient on all levels and work as a team to promote a balanced approach to well being. I would not take a back seat when it comes to your health care, do some research and make informed decisions from your inner guide or Presence.

That is all that comes to mind for now. Take good care of your self.

James
Last edited by James on Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

innerhike
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Re: Not ready to let go?

Post by innerhike » Fri Oct 24, 2008 6:49 am

If all these feelings, emotions, and reactions are merely a biproduct of my egoic mind trying to hold on, is it fair to assume that the meds I'm on won't be necessary once I/my true self/Being reaches a point of being rooted in Being?
You are on to something here my friend.

People can only give you what they have.

Seek not from others what is already here.

Nobody can bring us to presence.

We have to want peace, stillness, with the deepest desire possible, over and over.

Many waves, patterns will arise over and over until the story that you are is completely destroyed.

You will remain, you will prevail.

You are the sponsor of that which you see.

I myself am not fully wrecked.

But I do know how to the leave the house of suffering I have constructed.

This leaving has nothing to do with anyone or anything.

Letting go does not have to be dramatic.

What is dramatic is the resistance.

Be willing to allow everything to arise without being carried away by it.

Simply keep coming back to the NOW.

To the place where all just is.

Simply be.

The more you are in this place, the more you will know what to do.

James
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Re: Not ready to let go?

Post by James » Fri Oct 24, 2008 2:18 pm

It is good to hear innerhike's words of wisdom again.

Eugene said:
is it fair to assume that the meds I'm on won't be necessary once I/my true self/Being reaches a point of being rooted in Being?
I wish I could simply say yes. Here is my view on this. And I'll preface this by saying that in the past, I spent a bit of time in a tradition that puts emphasis on spiritual healing of the body. I learned over the years that it is best to come to truth with no other agenda than truth itself. Don't look to it as a cure or to take away your symptoms, or you may be continually frustrated. Come with a pure heart and open mind. Maybe your symptoms will clear up, maybe they won't, who knows? Letting go of attachment includes accepting the current circumstances as they are without wanting to change anything.

There are chemical and biological forces involved, and it is not the role of spirituality to alter these. What if you had to take something the rest of your years to stabilize your chemistry, would that be so bad? You are not your physical body, you needn't identify with any of it, the good health or the bad health, none of it is the truth of you. The role of spirituality is to know your true Self. Spontaneous healings can and do happen, and the body can gradually express better health when we are knowing the truth, but this occurs when we have given up any interest in a healing, and are completely satisfied with simply the truth of being, in spite of any symptoms. There may still be pain; to have a physical form implies some pain and limitation, but we needn't suffer when we rest in the truth of being, there can be freedom regardless of the circumstances.

James

Post edit: I added a few words above for clarification.
Last edited by James on Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.

happns
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Re: Not ready to let go?

Post by happns » Sat Oct 25, 2008 3:54 am

Hi Eugene... I hear you... been there... we are "sensitive"... I had to ask to live in the world of form... and this helped immensely... it's okay to live in the world of form... it's okay to be happy... that's why we are here :D
Here is a new spiritual practice for you... don't take your thoughts too seriously - Eckhart from Stillness Speaks

James
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Re: Not ready to let go?

Post by James » Sat Oct 25, 2008 12:50 pm

Eugene if you are still with us, I have a few more ideas/resources that might interest you. Your earlier post asked about psychology as a benefit. Here are some thoughts.

1) I believe it was the eminent analyst Carl Jung, that described your affliction as an inner journey, that necessitated an encounter with the divine to remediate. So the symptoms are seen as the doorway to the Self. Jung is sometimes regarded as the grandfather of transpersonal psychology, a field that combines spirituality with psychology. You may want to check out some of C.G. Jung's writings.

2) Also there is a transpersonal counselor/non dual therapist, named Loch Kelly, in NY,NY. He is a friend and associate of spiritual teacher Adyashanti. I heard he does phone sessions, you can find his info on his website, Google it. There are others practicing transpersonal counseling as well. In a large city like Chicago, you could surely find one.

3) I was searching for something by Jung, on Google, and instead I found this interesting site run by Albert Siebert Phd., (a non medical doctor). One statement here claims that 85% of patients can recover without medication. I was only able to skim over this, and don't know what his approach is based on, (it sounds like humanistic psychology); so you will need to do your own research and fact checking. Keep an open mind, as well as some healthy skepticism. Here is the link: http://www.successfulschizophrenia.org/index.shtml
This site mentions the movie A Beautiful Mind, a great film, which is based on the true story of mathematician and Nobel prize winner, John Forbes Nash Jr., who suffered from delusions. The movie version reportedly was not all that accurate (fictionalized), the Sylvia Nasar book by the same title was the real life story of how Nash recovered without any medication.
Nash wrote in 1995, "Gradually I began to intellectually reject some of the delusionally induced lines of thinking that had been characteristic of my orientation." And in 1996, "I emerged from irrational thinking, ultimately, without medicine other than the natural hormonal processes of aging."
Excerpt from: http://www.successfulschizophrenia.org/ ... ymind.html Eckhart Tolle mentions Nash in one of his talks, and how he was able to see through the delusions.

Eugene, I would suggest you take what resonates with you or helps, and leave the rest. You have your own inner authority and guide to rely on.

Best Wishes

James

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