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What it the source of painbody?

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 9:34 pm
by Destiny
After reading most of ET teachings I underestand and feel most of his stuff . Everythings makes senses (The ego , the Now , the identification , the awareness... ) and explanes more of the things that before we thought they were supersticious .

The thing that I can't understand is the source of painbody. Where did it came from? I recognize it in myself and others and I feel it , but I can't understand what caused it (there must be a cause why everyone has one - even if it doesn't has any sense because it is self destructive) Is it cased by evolution? Is it caused when we were child? Is it the polarity of positivity? or it is just the last grip of story that the Ego can have?

I think that "painbody" is a label for something that we can't understand so well for the moment (similar to the label "god" that we used when we didn't understand the "flow of the universe" ). So we give it a entity like it is an animal which needs energy food to survive . ET once said that he opened a window and the painbody when out of the room and jumped to another man in the bar nearby.

I feel that it is something deeper behind the painbody that causes it. Otherwise , we have the universe that we understand and ... boom! there is the painbody that jumps out from the shadows and follows as without knowing where did it came from - or what is his purpose

Re: What it the source of painbody?

Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2008 11:21 pm
by Marcel Franke
Destiny:
>similar to the label "god" that we used when we didn't understand the "flow of the universe"

Hi Destiny,

Can you please explain, what is the flow of the universe ?

Bye,

MF.

Re: What it the source of painbody?

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 12:41 am
by Destiny
Marcel Franke wrote:Destiny:
>similar to the label "god" that we used when we didn't understand the "flow of the universe"

Hi Destiny,

Can you please explain, what is the flow of the universe ?
After the big bang everything is happening through physical forces (like gravity .. etc) . This thing in the way became so complex that to explain evolution we call it natural selection . When it became more complex to explain it we labeled it and personalized it and we called it god.

These forces are invisible and now are so complex that they are impossible to understand them. We just sence them spiritually to become align with them and not resist them . When we align our selves with this flow , situations became helpful and life is easy . There is no God that helps us but the fact that we are following the flow of universe and we allow the universe to manifest itself throw us.

Re: What it the source of painbody?

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 10:33 am
by Marcel Franke
Hi Destiny,

Ok, thank you, now I understand.
But, it does raise a thought; old tribes and stuff did not know the big bang and gravity,
they had God(s),
but they did not call -it- God after -it- became more complex.
But then, ok, they are perhaps not included in your usage of "we".

And some of us will call consciousness God.

I am not sure if consciousness/awareness/being also came into this universe after the bigbang.
Perhaps consiousness is just a brainfunction; not according to Eckhart Tolle as far as I know.

If this universe contains it all, you might not be satisfied when you only find the cause of the painbody,
the painbody being part of this universe.
After all, this universe seems to exist by way of a very, very long chain of cause and efect,
efect becoming cause, etc., etc., with many, many branches.

It all takes time, this finding cause and efect, even just finding the cause of the painbody.
Perhaps, if you are able to realy see your bainbody, to feel it, when you become completely aware of it now,
you might no longer be interested in finding its cause.

Regards,

MF.

Re: What it the source of painbody?

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 8:27 pm
by domokato
The painbody is there to remind you of your past without the need for memories. It is part of your body's emotional conditioning. Emotional conditioning allowed for adaptation to one's environment prior to the (biological) evolution of the mind. I posit that the painbody Eckhart refers to is the "negative" parts of your body's emotional conditioning - anxiety, fear, anger, etc. The potential for the painbody evolved before thoughts and memories, but it is thoughts and memories which amplify its malfunction. Repeating thoughts and memories in your head can increase the size and influence of the painbody by triggering it over and over again, to the point where it ceases to serve its original function and causes suffering instead. This misuse of the body's emotional conditioning function is present in most parents (and so gets imitated by their children) and is usually portrayed as "normal" in the mass media. Only because they don't know any better :)

Why they don't know any better is a harder question to answer.

Re: What it the source of painbody?

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:38 pm
by Destiny
Marcel Franke wrote:Hi Destiny,
If this universe contains it all, you might not be satisfied when you only find the cause of the painbody,
the painbody being part of this universe.
After all, this universe seems to exist by way of a very, very long chain of cause and efect,
efect becoming cause, etc., etc., with many, many branches.

It all takes time, this finding cause and efect, even just finding the cause of the painbody.
Perhaps, if you are able to realy see your bainbody, to feel it, when you become completely aware of it now,
you might no longer be interested in finding its cause.
wow man! what an answer!
I am searching to realize the cause so it will be easier for me to weak and desolve it (than it will be when I suppose that it is an animal inside me)

@domokato . This is an interesting definition .

But if it is not on the human mind where is it? in the mamal brain? (if this is true some mamals like monkeys must have paindoby. )

And one other question: if the painbody appear at some stage of the evolution of emotional conditioning function , is it an error or it is usefull ? (like the "suffering from the Ego" which push people to awakening)

Re: What it the source of painbody?

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:53 am
by domokato
It's your body and brain together. They are very well-connected in this regard. The brain receives input from the outside world and triggers an emotional state in the body, which feeds back to the brain to trigger thoughts associated with the emotion, which may retrigger the emotion, repeating the entire process, thereby strengthening the connection between all these parts via conditioning. This is all there is to the painbody.

Animals don't seem to have pain bodies, although they do seem to have emotional conditioning. I read somewhere that animals do not form memories, and only have conditioning to rely on, so maybe that's why they don't have pain bodies - they can't trigger it over and over again on their own.

The painbody is not useful, by Eckhart's definition, except for spiritual practice, of course. It's a side effect of the interaction between the mind, modern civilization, and the emotional conditioning function, in the absence of awareness. It is also self-perpetuating in the absence of awareness, and it can spread from person to person through negative interactions and stuff.

Re: What it the source of painbody?

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:09 pm
by letitgo
Hello Destiny,

In order to understand the pain body, it might be helpful to visualize everything in the universe as various levels of vibrating energy. When we act or feel heavy with depression and negativity we're creating and participating in the field of negative energy called the pain body. Whether we're in a war creating this energy, or just carrying resentment and hatred. Every action, every thought, every belief, creates energy and adds to the vast body of energy connected to that action, thought, or belief.

As far as where the pain body came from, imagine the energy created by human beings on this earth one thousand years ago, two thousand years ago, three thousand years ago and beyond. We weren't exactly creating light and beautiful energy on this planet during those time periods of harsh living conditions, wars and famine. On the flip side, look at the now. We are completely capable, simply by intent and presence, to create and add to the lighter and higher energies on this earth in a global way comparable to the way we created it's opposite for thousands of years.

Also, I believe ET's referral to this massive earthly negative energy as "the pain body" was extremely wise and insightful. Had he referred to it with other historic connotations such as, "the devil, demons, lucifer,etc." people would be looking under the bed every night instead of focusing on being present where the pain body can't touch anyway!

Thanks for your post, Norm

Re: What it the source of painbody?

Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:35 pm
by Glycine
I think the painbody is a natural part of our brain/mind. Probably it has evolved to deal with unpleasant situations and physical pain. People who experience a lot of pain as children will have a larger part of the brain allocated for dealing with this situations. Also, some people may have a more developed pain body because of their genes.

Like all areas of the brain, the area for the painbody needs to be active from time to time in order to keep "alive", and not disappear or be allocated to other tasks. Apparently, this is why we are looking for trouble from time to time, even if everything is OK in the NOW.

For me, ET's teachings are a wonderful way to identify and "quench" the painbody.

Re: What it the source of painbody?

Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:42 am
by Sighclone
I think the painbody resides in the brainstem. That's just a guess. It is very primitive and powerful, but can fall under the watchful cover of presence. I think it is related to the "fight or flight" response (also midbrain or brainstem), hence to the ego. It is part of the self-defense mechanism of this organism on this planet through which Source experiences Itself.

Namaste, Andy