Basic needs versus ego

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
innerpeace2u
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Basic needs versus ego

Post by innerpeace2u » Tue Dec 02, 2008 9:38 pm

Hello everyone,

I had fortuitously stumbled by this site and thought I would quickly intro myself and throw out a question to see if anyone is willling to share their view.

I went through a massive life transformation this year. Lost my wife (who had alcohol addiction), house, job, health, money, and in "worldly terms" not yet finished with challenges that occured in a short period of time. I guess that phrase Eckhart points out that "This too shall pass" sometimes lasts longer than one expects.

I have thoroughly gone through many of the practices, readings, meditation and yoga in order to move deeper. It was important as well, given the moment of desparation of not being lured into many other teachings, spiritual or otherwise, that may be considered unfit. For me, I felt a massive connection with Eckharts wisdom and very grateful for it.

The question I was contemplating was non-attachment. We know that "form" comes and goes, and inner fullfillment can never be derived for too long from clinging on to material stuff. This wisdom alone allows us to stop chasing, stressing and worrying about many things that satisfies the ego. However, it is difficult to evolve when your decisions aren't made on attaining bigger things, but on providing for your family, basic shelter and food. I recall in one of the things Eckhart mentioned is if you get fired from your job you then sit on a park bench and just be there, and then eventually you will know what to do.

But what if the universe isn't guiding or directing you with the next steps? If our "spiritual muscle" isn't developed where we go with the next direction provided in moments of silence or meditation, is there a plan B?

Warm regards

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by Glycine » Tue Dec 02, 2008 10:43 pm

innerpeace2u wrote:Hello everyone,
I recall in one of the things Eckhart mentioned is if you get fired from your job you then sit on a park bench and just be there, and then eventually you will know what to do.

But what if the universe isn't guiding or directing you with the next steps? If our "spiritual muscle" isn't developed where we go with the next direction provided in moments of silence or meditation, is there a plan B?
In my opinion, this is definitely a case when we have to use our minds. Just waiting on a bench in the park is not going to solve the problems we have with "forms", but will "cool" our minds. In the end, we have to get off the bench, and go back into the world, and use our mind to solve our problems. What ET is saying, is that we don't have to take this personally if it doesn't go the way we want/imagine - the "universe/life" may have different plans for us. "Life" will guide us, but only if we put some effort into it.

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by innerpeace2u » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:01 am

Thanks for your response Glycine. I hear what you are saying about having to get up and use our minds to solve our problems. I'm grasping something a bit different however. My understanding, in an abstract sense, is allowing for consciousness to naturally take over, and instead to see our minds, or thoughts as secondary.

We hear of practicioners who have developed their inner selves to a point where there is an inflow of conscious pure information that flows into aiding with their important decisions. This is different than a typical pattern of subconsiously forcing an action to happen perhaps from the egoic mind.

Thoughts?

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by domokato » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:08 am

Don't resist anything that needs to be done.

Use your mind, but don't identify with it.

Egoic identification with form - your material belongings - will cause suffering.

Do what you need to do, and do it in peace. Good luck :)
~housecat

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by Juno » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:57 am

What you are doing right now like reading these words is what you are supposed to be doing. It's what you are doing so how can one say that you are not supposed to be doing it. That would be arguing with reality. The shift of unity consciousness shows one that they are everything and everything is IT. I experience things as Juno's not doing the doing. Stillness/spirit is doing the doing. I know a person could say okay I'll just go out and rob a bank since I'm not doing the doing. That's not how it is in my experience though. When one has had a true shift of seeing the Truth it would make it very difficult to rob a bank. I guess my point is to trust in the very next step your foot takes. Feel it in your body. Always go to your body for the right answer. Your head can lie to you. Your body can't. You are already It. My suggestion would be to practice sensing stillness and asking yourself this question that Adya poses. What is it in this moment to allow everything to be? The way it's worded get's the "I" out of the way. The one that would say "I" allow everything to be, the controller blocks, makes solid and seperate. Doing the question and sensing are subtle yet very powerful things. They make you fluid to move. Fluid, flow is very important in knowing what to do. Being that fluid shows one the way.
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by innerpeace2u » Wed Dec 03, 2008 7:37 am

Those comments you both made make sense and thanks for sharing.

Going back to the original query I had, and using Junos example.... It makes sense that consciousness won't whisper for you to rob a bank. But at least you are referring to a conscious instruction. What if we keep our minds blank and the void is still there?

My own response would be to just to enjoy the inner body experience and all its benefits anyway without any expectation. If you start being aware of your own awareness, that in itself should be the next step into guiding one into a more fulfilling path. By the same token one shouldn't be too focus on the "next step" as that refers to a future moment.

It is not required to place your entire life in hopes that you will be pulled into the right direction before the moment comes where you can't pay your next bill. I know this example was on an Oprah webcast but didn't quite grasp the answer.

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by Marcel Franke » Wed Dec 03, 2008 1:02 pm

>is there a plan B?

Of course.
There is also a plan B3
Plan 242-1.
Did I mention plan XY ?
Thats the bloody non-problem, isnt it ?
---ooOoo---

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by Juno » Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:36 pm

That's a really good point about the next step. What it is is a language thing. Just like teachers constantly contradicting themselves yet they are very helpful with pointers. What I am refering to is that feeling of flow. I absolutely love sensing from my body, I trust it 100%

innerpeace2u wrote:Those comments you both made make sense and thanks for sharing.

Going back to the original query I had, and using Junos example.... It makes sense that consciousness won't whisper for you to rob a bank. But at least you are referring to a conscious instruction. What if we keep our minds blank and the void is still there?

My own response would be to just to enjoy the inner body experience and all its benefits anyway without any expectation. If you start being aware of your own awareness, that in itself should be the next step into guiding one into a more fulfilling path. By the same token one shouldn't be too focus on the "next step" as that refers to a future moment.

It is not required to place your entire life in hopes that you will be pulled into the right direction before the moment comes where you can't pay your next bill. I know this example was on an Oprah webcast but didn't quite grasp the answer.
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by domokato » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:36 pm

innerpeace2u wrote:Those comments you both made make sense and thanks for sharing.

Going back to the original query I had, and using Junos example.... It makes sense that consciousness won't whisper for you to rob a bank. But at least you are referring to a conscious instruction. What if we keep our minds blank and the void is still there?

My own response would be to just to enjoy the inner body experience and all its benefits anyway without any expectation. If you start being aware of your own awareness, that in itself should be the next step into guiding one into a more fulfilling path. By the same token one shouldn't be too focus on the "next step" as that refers to a future moment.

It is not required to place your entire life in hopes that you will be pulled into the right direction before the moment comes where you can't pay your next bill. I know this example was on an Oprah webcast but didn't quite grasp the answer.
innerpeace2u,

It sounds like you're getting a little caught up on the words. Feel the truth the words point to. Absorb the words through presence. Don't mull them over with your mind. Your mind doesn't know Truth. It only knows thoughts and memories.

Consciousness does not "speak" to you. It is you. You are the observer. You do not do anything except observe. You do not judge. You do not speak. Your mind judges and your mind speaks (aka thinks). When your mind is blank there is an empty space in your awareness that the mind used to occupy. This is the void you speak of. It is a space of bliss and creativity. Action can arise here, or it can arise in the mind.

Enlightened (mind-free) action may not be the best for your life situation. But on the other hand, egoic action may not be the best for your spiritual growth and can add suffering into the world. However, the mind does not have to be egoic. If you don't identify with the mind (and thereby remain egoless), you will use the mind as a tool. And voila, you have practical action that does not cause additional suffering :)
~housecat

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by Sighclone » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:03 am

Edited - thanks dk!!

the cyclone.... :mrgreen:
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by domokato » Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:54 am

Sighclone,

I think you meant to respond to a different thread :)
~housecat

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by innerpeace2u » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:16 am

Domo,

Have you or anyone on the forum in fact experienced this sensation where a natural conscious action takes over... not from the mind, but from pure awareness/ non thinking?

If so, are there any examples anyone cares to share?

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by Juno » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:22 am

I love this question so I couldn't resist. You are consciousness are you not : ) so consciousness doesen't take over, you are already it. So don't make it hard. Consciousness moving is as simple as consciousness/you getting up out of that chair whenever consciousness decieds to do that. It is the flow that we all are. It is so simple that's why it is so easily over looked. Just like awareness it's what's looking out of your eyes at this very moment. But it's always here that's why we tend to not pay attention to it. We can't move unless consciousness moves us because we are it. It moves everything including the earth spinning, a shooting star, to someone diving off into a swimming pool.

innerpeace2u wrote:Domo,

Have you or anyone on the forum in fact experienced this sensation where a natural conscious action takes over... not from the mind, but from pure awareness/ non thinking?

If so, are there any examples anyone cares to share?
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by innerpeace2u » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:48 pm

Juno,

Thinking, as I understand is a small part of consciousness. So in your example, getting out of a chair, or swimming is part of my "thinking" mind. I get up one morning and think to myself, hmmm, I feel like going for a swim. Now I can be aware of the swimming, the way the water feels and all the other sensations that are associated around the activity. This is a bit different than what I am inquiring. The only areas I have thus far been able to move beyond thinking is automatic or conditioned responses when we are driving. We are conditioned to stop at red lights (or at least I hope most of us are).

The very specific consciousness I am interested in tapping into, realizing it can only happen NOW, is that feeling that you are actually taking action based on consciousness. As the great Sufi master (whom Eckhart often quotes as well), Rumi once alluded, you will know when you do something from your soul, it feels like a river moving in you, a joy. So far, other than doing good deeds for others and feeling good during meditation or yoga, this "pull" has been slight. I'm assuming it takes more practice.... but then I recall Eckhart telling us not to turn it into a goal. So then the answer would then require us to just "be" and accept the moment.

Rumi also mentioned about being drawn into that silent pull. This is a different way of addressing my original question... has anyone felt that "pull"?

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by domokato » Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:34 pm

Yes, I was gonna say it's more like a pull or an impulse. We can choose whether or not to act on that impulse. And sometimes the impulse requires the mind to be used before taking action, as in the case of speaking or writing. Here are some examples of pulls and unconscious responses to them:

Sometimes you'll have a pull towards going to sleep, but you'll resist this pull because you want to keep chatting online or playing computer games; you have become identified with the world within your computer, and your body's needs have become secondary. Or you may have a pull towards socializing, but you'll resist this pull because of fear of saying something wrong and being embarrassed; your ego/painbody has stopped the impulse from turning into an action. Or you may have a pull towards making music, but you'll resist taking action because you feel like your music won't be good enough for some reason; you are identified with an illusory future where your music sucks and no one likes you.

It is also important to see where these pulls come from. Maybe you want to make music because you want to be famous. That is ego. When you recognize this, it no longer has control over you. Awakening is the process of bringing unconscious things within you to light. As you recognize different parts of you for what they are, conscious action is all that is left.
~housecat

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