Basic needs versus ego

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
nili
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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by nili » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:32 am

in my case:
As "amazing" as it sounds... sitting on a bench has produced better results than hours of analysis....
In the past whenever i hit some life crossroads, i would spend great time analyzing pros and cons of different scenarios...trying to figure out which outcome i should try to manipulate life into becoming. This exhausting, stressful, exercise would give me a temporary relief by making me think that i have concluded and decided what's best for me. sure enough, as years go by, i now know that many of those "conclusions" were wrong.

Life is indeed so much intelligent than us, so many millions of possibilities are out there which we cannot foresee or integrate into our action plan...

That "pull" or "impulse" received on the bench is a most precious present. act on it! you may not see the point now.
From my experience, those impulses have lead to the most incredible chains of events, often changing the "life situation".

it is important to be patient, and never to give up faith in this process...

Nili

Juno
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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by Juno » Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:51 am

You know I see what you are talking about and it makes me think of what has had my attention all day today. That to fixate on something can really block that flow. Like a huge realization for example, it feels real good and we tend to want to stay there. We fixate and try real hard and what does that do? Stop the flow. I realized I was doing this to lesser degree than I use to but fixate is fixate and I realized I've been doing that after a huge realization I recently had. Adya talks about a pendulum swing. We have this great realization and it feels so good and amazing we want to hang on and what happens, the pendulum swings to the other side equal and opposite. I saw this in me this time with this realization. Within 36 hours I was at the TOTAL opposite of the realization. Totally caught in egoic crap. So what's working for me is to not try and keep it simple. Not try to have any kind of experience. Those examples of getting up out of the chair etc. are examples of keeping it simple in actual living consciousness in action so when that time come and you notice that river running through you will do just that, notice. This is just my experience at this point.

Rest as What you are and everything will clear up. That was a huge teaching I learned from Mike Snider. It is at the center of all of this for me.
As far as experiencing that pull. In my experience I feel that pull all the time it just isn't always flashy. Thanks for creating the space to talk about it.

innerpeace2u wrote:Juno,

Thinking, as I understand is a small part of consciousness. So in your example, getting out of a chair, or swimming is part of my "thinking" mind. I get up one morning and think to myself, hmmm, I feel like going for a swim. Now I can be aware of the swimming, the way the water feels and all the other sensations that are associated around the activity. This is a bit different than what I am inquiring. The only areas I have thus far been able to move beyond thinking is automatic or conditioned responses when we are driving. We are conditioned to stop at red lights (or at least I hope most of us are).

The very specific consciousness I am interested in tapping into, realizing it can only happen NOW, is that feeling that you are actually taking action based on consciousness. As the great Sufi master (whom Eckhart often quotes as well), Rumi once alluded, you will know when you do something from your soul, it feels like a river moving in you, a joy. So far, other than doing good deeds for others and feeling good during meditation or yoga, this "pull" has been slight. I'm assuming it takes more practice.... but then I recall Eckhart telling us not to turn it into a goal. So then the answer would then require us to just "be" and accept the moment.

Rumi also mentioned about being drawn into that silent pull. This is a different way of addressing my original question... has anyone felt that "pull"?
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

innerpeace2u
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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by innerpeace2u » Fri Dec 05, 2008 10:02 pm

These comments are very stimulating.

So if I am understanding correctly, your interpretation of "the pull" is not always pronounced or flashy as you put it.

When I sit on a park bench and clear the mind, I am present, I enjoy the air, the birds and sense peace. Admittedly sometimes I begin to shift impatiently after about 10min or so or feel I rather read a book or conduct another activity. Thus far as I mentioned, even going through the park bench meditation, there are no new thoughts (flashy or not) or calls to action that arise. Maybe it takes a week or a year. Even a non egoic thought (if I could even differentiate) where a thought or impulse arises that "oh... i should really start doing this". But you are indicating that this has happened in your experience, correct?

The other comment that made me think further is that I have in the past been thought to make an important decision based on the Ben Franklin system, where you split the pros/cons on a sheet of paper and add up to which totals more, and that is the decision that is made. I still believe this to be important, now I see this as too left-brain and analytical. This would perhaps be an useful tool, but only after attempting to first go into a zone of no thought and pure awareness to see what comes out of there first or scanning the body for any sensation or hunches. Would this be close to your understanding of the most appropriate method?

innerhike
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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by innerhike » Sat Dec 06, 2008 6:48 am

Here are my thoughts on this dear innerpeace2u, and maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't.

There is a possibility that we can use spiritual teachings in an irresponsible way, a way that endangers our safety, well-being, or that of our dependents.

Is the spirit using us, or are we using it?

Everyone prays Lord make me an instrument of your work, but few get out of the way long enough for the lord to come through.

Until such time that we have come to the place that the Lord is indeed doing the work in our lives, until that time it is safe to say that we need to do what we can to take care of things and to keep engaged in some kind of practice that helps us in letting go of our inner burdens, our psychological suffering.

Paying bills is a spiritual practice.

Everything practical is spiritual.

Not a thing in our lives is to be neglected.

Ego has an idea of what it means to be "spiritual" or comfortable.

Real spirituality is quite uncomfortable. It is about being on the edge, the edge of one's ego, and jumping off into the deep end of God-Peace-Love-Self.

No matter how much we have let go, there is more to let go.

Is spirituality about my ideas or about how Life Is?

Working with things the way they are is a good thing, it is wisdom, it is practical.

What is not meant to be, won't stay for long.

May you be guided by your connection with what is real and enduring...

Juno
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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by Juno » Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:58 pm

I see the "pull" as everything because What I am is Everything. Whether it's blissful or painful.
When I sit on a park bench and clear the mind, I am present,
What you are is always present, without question. It's never moving yet moves everything.

It doesen't take a week or a year. What You are is the NOW. It's just waiting to be noticed. Have you read or listened to Stillness Speaks by Eckhart? For me it seemed very relevant to start sensing Stillness.
Even a non egoic thought (if I could even differentiate) where a thought or impulse arises that "oh... i should really start doing this". But you are indicating that this has happened in your experience, correct?

For me I don't really differentiate my "non egoic" thought with egoic thought. I see it is all One. What I the big I am is appearing as that thought no matter what it is. But it does seem that the more in tune I am the more I do see which is illusion and which is appropriate I guess I would say. I see that I am It so what ever move I make is Presence doing it. It's confusing because one would think okay when I do something stupid is that Presence. The way I understand and experience for myself is that yes it is because IT is everything. The diffrence for me is that since I had my first awakening experience where I knew everything is one that's when what I believed changed. There was and continues to deepen a realization of What I am. I thought I was Monica the dog groomer the hard worker the one with this little life but that all changed once I Self realized so knowing that makes me start moving more from Presence instead of Monica. Speaking of Monica and Presence I have to get to work.
Last edited by Juno on Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

Juno
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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by Juno » Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:45 pm

Hey inerpeace2u, I have to make something clear in that I was over simplifing(sp) your question. Yet I don't think I've been off track. Please keep in mind that I've only experienced this new perception for about 8 months now. Perception from oneness that is "turning" not turned my world right side up. I have been intuitevly feeling this pull that's deeper than just day to day activities. I mean just having the silghtest tastes. I know when it's happenig because I'm more clear in the way I speak. That's when it is noticable at this point. When I'm quiet I think it is probably going on a whole lot more. I have known I'm not doing the doing since I woke up. So I see that Being is doing all doing but as I think you are trying to get to but with my inexperience was refering to the most obvious doing. So what you are refering to is prajna, heart wisdom. That intuitve knowing. Like I said like within the past couple of days I've been more clear speaking I've noticed because it feels I am speaking from Being it just feels more clear. I am by no means that in tune all the time. One Jesus saying that really resonates is Be still and know. We tend to want to do it the other way around to know so I can be still. What you will get from me is where I'm at and I suppose that would be true with everyone on here. I just needed to clear this up as best I could.

Monica
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

innerpeace2u
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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by innerpeace2u » Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:33 pm

Thanks Juno and hike for sharing. I have read all of Tolle's book including the one you indicated "Stillness speaks".

Here is another question that I was pondering which also fits the topic...

Eckhart talks about how we accumulate things for the purpose of identification, or falsely attempting to grow our self worth. I have wondered though, what about things we purchase for needs, or even enjoyment? If I spend more on a softer more expensive toothbrush, is it my ego that adds to itself or do I actually enjoy it because the senses appreciate the finer bristles? Or if I buy a car with air conditioning, its not to add to myself or impress others for the sake of the ego, but to actually enjoy the comforts that it provides. Is this mentioned anywhere in the teachings?

Juno
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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by Juno » Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:41 pm

It's only the story you put behind the toothbrush that adds to the ego. If it's just a toothbrush period that's all it is. If in your mind it is state of the art, get's in all the crevices, massages your gums to the zenith, is gold plated, makes your smile the most briliant smile in your mind that you ever saw you are going to run into problems. That's funny. Buy the car be done with it. Once one realizes What they are which is the essence in every part of that car in every passanger that rides in that car, is every person that works on that car. When one realizes this Oneness they no longer need derive an identity out of the car as if they themselves were a porsche. That's what mid life crisis is all about. It's an identity crisis and a lot of guys & gals think the car represents who they are. It's highly hilarious when one looks at it.
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

innerpeace2u
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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by innerpeace2u » Mon Dec 08, 2008 4:00 am

Indeed Juno... but do you see perhaps what I am attempting to get across? Picking that car with a/c isn't just about ego, its also about physical comfort which I view as different that object identification. Im sure Eckart addresses this somewhere.... I just havent seen it.

Lets say for example Eckhart uses, the child identifies with a toy; when that toy is taken away, there is suffering because the child sees the toy as a larger part of herself, hence the beginning of ego growth. I haven't seen anything mentioned about possibly having an item, in the child's case, a pacifier, where it is just a physical soother as well as possibly an additional identification to ego.

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by Juno » Mon Dec 08, 2008 5:48 am

Innerpeace, I guess I don't understand the difference. Maybe someone else will see what you are getting at.
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by Sighclone » Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:00 am

Eckhart likes hot soup. When it is delivered cold, he will ask that it be heated. During the Oprah webinars, he ordered some new furniture. He told us he likes the shapes of the new furniture. There is an ocean of difference between the man who buys expensive showy elegant furniture to send the message: "I am a man who can buy this expensive furntiure. I am prosperous and wealthy. I want/need you to see that fact about me. I am proud of my things," and a man who says simply, with infinitely more power and at the same time, with utter humility: "I am that."

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by innerpeace2u » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:16 am

Hi Andy,

I think I understand exactly what you are saying. I just was looking for some kind of verification as you had just described. In ANE it almost sounded to me as if we keep accumulate things, it is automatically an egoic reaction to add to "little me". He even cites an example near the beginning of the book where people purchase designer label only to feel special. Whereas I felt comfortable to know that it is possible as well to say own a designer label shirt not because I want to impress someone or feel identified with it, but because I value the workmanship thats backed up by the brand. Is this similar to what you are saying?

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by Glycine » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:07 pm

My personal opinion: if you buy things other than the minimum required to be alive and creative, you are still attached to things and forms to some extent.
You can enjoy "stuff" without owning it.

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by innerpeace2u » Mon Dec 08, 2008 8:55 pm

Glycine, I believe you can still have more than the basics and yet not be attached to them.

Even in Eckhart's case were he has upgraded to where he was before. Drives a nice car, has nice furniture, etc.

The difference being is that he is not "attached" to them which is the key differentiating factor. In the world of form, these are considered secondary, almost for our amusement. As long as we don't identify with them, we can be both rich in the world of spirit and of form.

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Re: Basic needs versus ego

Post by Sighclone » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:55 pm

Assuming non-attachment, purchasing expensive items immediately distributes wealth down the food chain. Therefore, Eckhart should buy very expensive things, or maybe lots of cheap things, but he should spend his money rather than let it accumulate in a bank account. Especially today, when jobs are scarce. That is service to humanity. After his purchases, he could give them away if he felt like it...or hold them and distribute them after his passing, in his estate. The truly selfish gesture is to buy nothing.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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