I need you to tell me you like me

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
Glycine
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Re: I need you to tell me you like me

Post by Glycine » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:28 pm

"You must lose yourself (aka mind) to find yourself".
It is tough indeed, especially when the mind is very active. Our mind should be a tool only - don't get your sense of self from the mind.

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domokato
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Re: I need you to tell me you like me

Post by domokato » Thu Dec 18, 2008 10:06 pm

citronella49 wrote:then what purpose does thinking serve? Why do we even bother? I'm no jealous of my cats... I dont think they 'think' ... they just live... why arn't we like that? Didnt thinking evolve to be some sort of improvement .... to help us succeed where other species 'failed' ... or are we failing now? Because we think too much...
Thinking is an improvement for our life situations. We now have dominance over the planet. But we fell in love with our minds and forgot who we were. There is no right or wrong about it. No succeed or fail. It's just what is. Do you want peace? Then be at peace.
citronella49 wrote:What you say here inspires and terrifies me... surrender sounds so peaceful and so naive... surrender is submission... submit to who? Can I trust them? Wont they take advantage of me? Dont I need to protect myself? Surrendering sounds too terrifying... I am not lucky enough to have it work... Of course I know there is no luck... thats just how I feel, you guys can surrender and everything will work out for you, if I surrender I will lose myself and people we take advantage of me, and I will get nothing... sigh... nothing but peace... which is supposed to be what I want... is wanting peace as bad as wanting all of the other things I want but cant get?
Surrender as we use it is not submission. It means you accept what is. That doesn't mean you can't take action to create what will be. When you don't accept what is there is resistance within you. Resistance creates tension and emotions and thoughts and all that stuff, and stops You from taking action. Instead, your mind or your ego takes action for you, and those two just cause more suffering. In order to take control back from your mind and ego you have to make your mind surrender to what is. Because You are what is.
citronella49 wrote:Yeah, I hear you say that, and I know thats the purpose of this forum, but Im afraid of being branded "that perpetually negative person who takes our good words and ignores them" I dont want to be that person, but I just don't feel like I can surrender... so I feel like I have to fight it... fight peace... thats a strange concept... but thats what I do...
This is something you really don't have to worry about! At worst you'll be a welcome spiritual challenge for us, but I don't think most of us even see it that way. I think most of us want to help you awaken and stop suffering. Remember, we're trying to be beyond blame and judgment and labels, so we're not gonna label you "that perpetually negative person who takes our good words and ignores them", and if we do you can call us on it :).
citronella49 wrote:I had a really nice day today... and yet, when I came home I had such an overwhelming feeling of guilt, failure and general depression that I had to lay down for about 20 min before I could even feed my cats... then I forced myself to come here and read... think about positive things at least since I cant seem to stop thinking in general... I have about 50 other ideas for posts I wan to make, but I also have to wake up in 8 hours to go to work again, and I know the answers wouldn't be much different from those above... I dont have to change how I think... but I have to change something... I honestly don't know how to do it. But thank you for offering your assistance... I hope someday I can have the confidence to help someone else on a place like this.
PM me if you want. I think what would benefit you most is experiencing deeper presence. I may be able to guide you towards that :). In the mean time, I found that watching Tolle videos on youtube have been very helpful. You might want to give it a try.
~housecat

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Re: I need you to tell me you like me

Post by citronella49 » Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:39 am

you have to make your mind surrender to what is. Because You are what is.
I wonder what you mean by "make your mind" by make do you mean force? Cause right now it feels like I am forcing myself to surrender... or at least just chill out and let stuff pass... but that doesn't seem to last very long.

Also, your saying I have to surrender to myself? That doesn't sound so bad... but... I honestly dont understand it... I mean if I surrender to myself, then what really am I surrendering to...? I am not surrendering to a thinking being... cause you say thought causes the problems, so I am surrendering myself to something else... something without thought... thats kinda scary... If I surrender myself to something without thought, how do I know that it will take care of me and do whats best for me? Does any of this make sense? Its hard to put my thoughts and questions about this stuff into words at times.
I just want to understand

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domokato
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Re: I need you to tell me you like me

Post by domokato » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:24 am

I only said "make your mind" because it is not You that is surrendering. You are just you. You can't surrender. You can't do anything. You just exist. Your mind is the one that surrenders to You - relinquishes control to You. There is no forcing - only a realization of who you are. When you know who you are you cease to suffer. Sometimes you may let you mind run so that you can live in the world of time, but if you stay present you still will not suffer.

To get in touch with "You", try this and get back to me:

Sit with your eyes open. Become physically still. Listen as if waiting for a sound. Feel as if waiting for a touch. See as if waiting for something to come into view. At this point your mind should have become completely quiet. This experience of this single moment is You. There is no previous moment. There is no next moment. Just this moment, filled with continually changing form. You are that which doesn't change. That which is beyond form. Formless. The stillness. The awareness of what is. That's You.

Let me know how it turns out :)
~housecat

weopposedeception
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Re: I need you to tell me you like me

Post by weopposedeception » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:52 am

I had trouble with surrender as an act of will. The mind couldn't get it, it was like trying to teach calculus to a chimpanzee.
A teacher gave me some good ideas when I told him of this problem. He said to notice that all throughout my entire life there was something that was allowing absolutely everything to happen just the way it happened, and it's allowing right now. All it does is notice and allow whatever happens, that's its job. This presence or whatever you want to call it, this thing that notices and allows everything, could this be your essence, your true identity?

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Re: I need you to tell me you like me

Post by Sighclone » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:44 am

citronella49 -

You will enjoy re-reading Eckhart's chapter on surrender, p. 205 ff in PON. I found all my questions were answered there. Also, he emphasizes inner-body awareness in both PON (p. 94 and 129) and ANE (p. 52)...surrender can begin here. Finally, true surrender might produce some twitching. Yup, there is a release of stress during deep surrender, so don't be afraid if you get a little jerk or two from a muscle group...also a typical, natural experience during meditation.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

E1lycat
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Re: I need you to tell me you like me

Post by E1lycat » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:24 am

citronella49, I hope this will help with the emotional turmoil. The teacher I went to who taught ET said that whenever I'm overwhelmed with feelings of guilt, fear, pain, despair or whatever, to find the emotion in my body, observe it, and to finesse it.. As in to see if the feeling is hot, or cold, numb or heavy, etc.
For example, when I feel fear, it feels like a icy cold hook extending from my head, down my throat, into my chest and curling around into my lungs or heart. When I concentrate on the hook, and try to study it some more, miraculously, and amazingly (it still gets me every time), the feeling in my body and the emotion just goes away! And no other technique I have ever learned has helped me with debilitating emotions so much. I think this is what ET meant when he said dissolving the pain body, because it is this act that shines awareness onto it. I hope it works for you!

Lotsa love,
E1lycat
I am in need of nothing but the truth

-ACIM-

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Re: I need you to tell me you like me

Post by Plorel » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:12 am

I like that technique. That should really help to take the position of a observer rather than be identified with emotions.

In a book I came another thing that was really interesting and is based on the same idea.
When there is emotional or physical pain, you can ask yourself:
1. Which colour does the pain have
2. Which amout of water would be needed to cool it
3. If is had a form, which one would it take
4. On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad does it feel.

You can ask that questions over and over again and everytime you repeat it you can see that the colour turns from e.g. red to white, the amout of water will eventually be a raindrop instead of an ocean, the form will become sth soft instead of thorny and the awfulness of it will hopefully decrease from maybe 10 to 1.

stefan
Who am I without my story?

citronella49
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Re: I need you to tell me you like me

Post by citronella49 » Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:50 pm

E1lycat wrote:citronella49, I hope this will help with the emotional turmoil. The teacher I went to who taught ET said that whenever I'm overwhelmed with feelings of guilt, fear, pain, despair or whatever, to find the emotion in my body, observe it, and to finesse it.. As in to see if the feeling is hot, or cold, numb or heavy, etc.
What if I cant find the emotion? What if I think I find it but its fluctuating so much I cant get my "eyes" on it? What if it doesnt have a feeling... like hot of cold, just bad... I know I sound like a 5 year old when I ask these questions, sorry. I am having bad feelings now (hatred jealousy resentment) and I can focus on them.... or maybe I dont really want to, I dont know, I cant control myself when I am like this.
I just want to understand

citronella49
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Re: I need you to tell me you like me

Post by citronella49 » Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:56 pm

Plorel wrote: 1. Which colour does the pain have
2. Which amout of water would be needed to cool it
3. If is had a form, which one would it take
4. On a scale of 1 to 10, how bad does it feel.
stefan
I just tried this... the pain was red, I dont know how much water it would take to cool it, its too hot, water turns to steam before it gets close enough to touch the pain, I cant imagine water cooling the pain... if it had a form it would be a knife in my chest and I cant tell you how bad it feels because sometimes I enjoy/want it, so I dont always associate it with bad... maybe intensity I can rank... right now Im at about 6 or 7 ... but 20 min ago it was 10.... But when I tried to see the pain I got very sad, sad that the pain existed, I dont want to have hatred, resentment, jealousy etc in my heard, so when I see the pain I start to cry and feel sadness and pity and that complicates things cause they are blue and weaker, and I dont know where to look... does this make any sense?
I just want to understand

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Re: I need you to tell me you like me

Post by kiki » Tue Dec 23, 2008 12:16 am

What if I cant find the emotion? What if I think I find it but its fluctuating so much I cant get my "eyes" on it? What if it doesnt have a feeling... like hot of cold, just bad... I
Simply feel what's there. You don't have to label it in any way. Something must be there otherwise you wouldn't be feeling the way you do, so let awareness rest on what is sensed in the body. Let awareness do all the work; just watch it and let what happens happen. Above all accept what's there and never judge yourself in any way.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
---

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Re: I need you to tell me you like me

Post by citronella49 » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:09 am

kiki wrote: Above all accept what's there and never judge yourself in any way.
This is the part that I think is a little crazy... I have to judge myself... If I don't judge myself I wont know if Im doing the right thing or the wrong thing... I wont know if Im making the best decisions... I need to reflect on my choices and learn to make better choices in the future... how can I do that without judging myself?
I just want to understand

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domokato
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Re: I need you to tell me you like me

Post by domokato » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:40 am

kiki is talking about that specific process. In order to experience deeper presence, one must release judgment. However, to live in the everyday world of form, one cannot avoid judgment. However, what you can give up is the resistance and suffering that goes with the judgment. You can still say yourself, "oops, I shouldn't have said that", and not make the same mistake next time. But when you are at peace with yourself you realize there is no need to inflict mental and emotional punishment upon yourself for it. "Live and learn" comes to mind, but perhaps turning it around would be more clear - "Learn, and continue living".
~housecat

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Re: I need you to tell me you like me

Post by randomguy » Tue Dec 23, 2008 1:51 am

I have to judge myself...
You can always go back to judging yourself. That will always be an option. (Anyway, even with practice, it may not be incredibly easy to break that habit...) But if you follow Kiki's advice, you may end up seeing things in a new light and conclude that judging yourself is not actually as helpful as it appears to be.

What if you allowed yourself to feel the sadness? What if it was OK with you to feel sadness? Would it be nice to not have to do anything or control anything around your sadness for a while? It's OK to be sad.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

citronella49
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Re: I need you to tell me you like me

Post by citronella49 » Tue Dec 23, 2008 2:05 am

domokato wrote:"Live and learn" comes to mind, but perhaps turning it around would be more clear - "Learn, and continue living".
Ok, I understand how you can judge without resentment... I mean Im not there yet... maybe I can to it... but anyway, I just wanna know why you switched those phrases around, its not apparent to me the difference between them, sorry, Im just trying to understand as much as I can
I just want to understand

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