Self Defense

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
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domokato
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Self Defense

Post by domokato » Wed Dec 17, 2008 8:24 pm

If someone was trying to kill you, would you be willing to kill them in self defense?

Discuss. :)
~housecat

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Intel
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Re: Self Defense

Post by Intel » Wed Dec 17, 2008 9:43 pm

It would depend. You may try to defend yourself, and in the process kill the other person. That is not the same as achieving personal saftety, then going on to kill your attacker. There is no straight line reaction and were all different. I know many would have you believe otherwise, but within us, even those that consider themselves spiritual and without ego any emotion may arise.

Even rage can arise. It takes serious discipline to suppress this feeling. Because if you don't, you'll probably act on it in the presence of others and end up doing something you'll regret rather than holding it in, and releasing it in a more appropriate environment. Naturally the more present you are, the less chance this feeling has go come up. However there is always a chance, so hopefully you will have the clarity to deal with it in an honourable fashion. My 2pence.
I would lick your feet, but is that the sickest move?

randomguy
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Re: Self Defense

Post by randomguy » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:39 am

There are so many hypothetical scenarios. If someone were to answer yes or no, it would be nearly impossible to know the situation to which the answer is referring.

I think it is(loosely) related to the question of whether or not people behave morally without religion. I think it may have been in a book by Dawkins that points to a study that shows morality as being inherent to our being even without guidance by a commandment like structure.

My point is, that someone who is aware can be trusted to know the "right" thing to do. How would I even know what I would do, really, unless confronted with a life threatening situation?

In ANE, or elsewhere, I remember Tolle, regarding a hypothetical conversation, saying something thing like "...you don't have to give in". Which I resonate with.

I think there is an preconception that a totally spiritually realized person would allow themselves to be overpowered by anyone while maintaining a state of total peace and acceptance.

However, I think it's (currently) a natural state of being to have a reasonably asserted place in the world. Perhaps in a very evolutionary distant future things will be different...
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

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Webwanderer
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Re: Self Defense

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Dec 18, 2008 1:49 am

Alright, this is just for fun. Here's what may be a more troublesome question: Would you be willing to kill someone in order to protect the life of another? If so, is this not the road to war?

WW

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domokato
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Re: Self Defense

Post by domokato » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:51 am

WW, you have a special gift for getting to the heart of what I mean to say :)
~housecat

weopposedeception
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Re: Self Defense

Post by weopposedeception » Thu Dec 18, 2008 5:18 am

It concerns me that the vast majority of these video games kids are addicted to nowadays involve killing. Over and over and over.

citronella49
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Re: Self Defense

Post by citronella49 » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:48 pm

I would like to think that if someone attacked me or someone around me that I would protect myself or that other person and do what ever I had to do to make sure that the attacker cant get back up when I am finished... even if that means death... I mean that would be sad to kill someone, but they shouldn't have attacked someone if they didn't want to get hurt or killed... You know "get out of the kitchen if you can't take the heat"

I guess you can tell Im not one of the enlightened people on this board...

But in reality Im pretty sure I wouldn't be able to protect myself... I might not even have the guts to try... I mean if the attacker was WAY bigger than me or had a gun/knife and seemed to know what he was doing with it, then I bet I would just hide... unless he was attacking a kid, I don't think I could stop myself in that situation... and so I would probably get myself killed... but if he was attacking me I know I would fight and fight, but Im not really all that strong,... all bark and no bite...

And about video games... I am 29 years old and have been playing video games since I was 2! I love video games... and yes, there is violence in many games, and even cartoon violence in most games... but the thing you should know is, video games are not real life. Just like when I read the book "Fallen Angels" or "All quiet on the Western Front" or some other book about war and killing, I know I'm not reading it cause I want to kill REAL people. We read books, watch movies and play games all the time that show representations of death and killing, it doesn't make us killers. I think people just want to attack video games for the same reason they wanted to attack rock and roll when it first came out... we want to stand on our high morals and condemn something else that someone else is doing so we feel vindicated and virtuous... even though Im sure if we looked at ourselves we would see plenty that is immoral... at least I guess... for most people anyway

I don't know how many gamers there are on this board, so I just wanted to stand up for the gamers out there...
I just want to understand

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Onceler
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Re: Self Defense

Post by Onceler » Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:50 pm

The way you think you would act may not be what awareness dictates in the moment...pre-thinking may alter pure action in some way. It seems that it would be better to be vibrantly connected to present awareness in order to answer some future demand.

I think it would be interesting to see how I would act.

When someone pulled a gun on Byron Katie, she noticed the wind in the trees the beauty of the night and felt compassion for the confusion of the person holding the gun and there was curiosity about the outcome. (I definitely don't think this would be my response....)
Be present, be pleasant.

randomguy
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Re: Self Defense

Post by randomguy » Fri Dec 19, 2008 7:29 pm

Ww and domo, don't you want to answer as well?
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

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domokato
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Re: Self Defense

Post by domokato » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:47 pm

Okay. I thought of the question while writing a response to the Vegetarian thread. I wanted to write "If I were farmed for food by aliens I would accept that this is so, but that wouldn't stop me from killing them to free myself," but then I reconsidered if this was really true. To kill another being (especially a sentient one with an ego) would add lots of suffering to the world, but to not kill that being may allow even more suffering to persist. I suppose in the end, whichever path leads to less suffering and more awakening overall is the one I would choose :)
~housecat

citronella49
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Re: Self Defense

Post by citronella49 » Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:58 pm

How can you know which path will lead to less suffering before you take it?
I just want to understand

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domokato
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Re: Self Defense

Post by domokato » Mon Dec 22, 2008 7:57 pm

You can't really know for sure. But being present usually guides you towards the best action :)
~housecat

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