"Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
Mushinsan
Posts: 41
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2009 8:03 pm

Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by Mushinsan » Tue Jan 06, 2009 9:04 pm

Man, you guys and girls are good. I'm glad I was brought here. Thank you

spikyface
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:40 am
Location: Sheffield, England

Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by spikyface » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:16 am

Marijuana can provide life-altering insight, a moment of crystal clarity that can completely change your worldview although this is largely dependent on the what the person's really wants out of the experience and blind luck

I've had such an experience and it's what pointed me towards Tolle and this forum (http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... f=2&t=3173)

i.e. if a person is seeking answers but cannot find them because their mind is too busy then MAYBE marijuana can still it long enough for them to see things from a different perspective, although in some people the opposite happens and the mind becomes more active, if this is the case I doubt anything will profound will happen

Once it's happened, continuing to use marijuana provides no further spiritual benefits and the weed blues can actually make you less emotionally/mentally balanced in the short term (heavy use leads to short term depression and irritability, lasting up to a month after usage is stopped)

Ultimately though, such an experience is very rare and I wouldn't encourage anyone to go chasing it, I have friends who've repeatedly tried a range of drugs in the hopes that it would and nothing happened for them

In a nutshell, yes maybe you will get some insight, but once you've got that new insight, it's up to you to do something with it, repeated use thereafter won't help you and conversely doing the same thing over and over again even though it doesn't provide any insight won't help either
It can be a stepping stone to something greater but don't forget to step off once you've got a better vantage point (either it worked and you got insight, or it didn't and you need to try something else, besides drugs I mean)

The way drugs are used today is largely recreational, this is completely opposite to the way that they were used in ancient tribal/shamanistic cultures where they were used to go on spiritual journeys of self-descovery (however in South America this practice is still alive to this day with Ayuahuasca)

Also people rarely report having profound life-altering visions with marijuana
However it is the main reason people take Ayahuasca, since the 'high' is so violent that it's not really something most would want to do for fun

Caspar Greeff did a series of articles for the Times newpaper about his experiences with Ayahuasca (he went all over South America for several months taking it and blogging about his experiences) but his blog has been taken down, perhaps it's still there somewhere on the internet but he was writing a book about it at the time so it might be easier just to wait for that to come out

I noticed the same thing in his writing, the initial experience he had was profound and deep but thereafter it seemed like he was just chasing the same experience again and again with no new insight forthcoming

On meditation; initially I was able to lie down, meditate (whilst cold sober) and produce a profound sense of euphoria by feeling the inner body for the first time, but that's not always possible and trying to repeatedly attain that state can be as addictive as anything else

Perhaps this state is possible because of the experience I had and when meditating all that really happened was a reconnection with that part of myself/us that I glimpsed (i.e. it's easier to return to a state that you've already been to before)

Having said all this, clear perception and the subtle peace of being completely in the moment trumps all these experiences as there's no downer
With every other high I've experienced (chemically induced, material success, sexy-fun or otherwise) there has always been a downside proportional to the high

True meditation is what I try to practice now and it's allowed me to open up in the most unexpected ways (dancing for example, something I never used to do before)

I've found guided meditation (Eckhart Tolle - Practicing the power of Now, Adyashanti - True Meditation) was great initially and produced a profound state of bliss in me that made alcohol and drugs seem pointless (why bother when you can feel the inner body and feel awesome almost whenever you want?)

But listening to the same mp3s became repetitive, so I've since moved onto Holosync and am trying that out now (so far so good)
It's a kind of binaural beat induced meditative state

Anyway, that was a bit long but hopefully it's helped you dear reader :D
Do not take anyone as an authority on what you are. Ultimately all the answers lie within

peleke4
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:52 am

Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by peleke4 » Sat Jan 17, 2009 5:31 am

I'm going to read the responses AFTER so my I can describe my very own experience just the way it was. It seems that marijuana is what opened my mind to see things from a new angle. While stoned, Something came up that awoke a particular pain-body/velcro-thought. Unease and tightness arose. I allowed everything to be and watched it. I then saw that that particular thought was what caused the unease in the first place: I saw that one thought was in opposition to another thought. So there were two different schools of thoughts and this was all taking place in my very own mind... as Adyashanti says, "it's a closed loop." . I then realized that this same idea applied to ALL issues/problems. Adyashanti advises that you have to be like a "mad scientist." So I experimented with something minor.

I was walking and started to talk about this realization outloud, by myself. People walked past me and noticed I was talking to myself. Ordinarily, I'd feel self-conscious of this. But I saw that the self-consciousness that would ordinarily arise was thought. And an opposing thought would come into the picture and be at odds against it. A battle taking place in my own head! That's what causes the tightness and unease in my solar-plexus. Although people probably thought I was losing it, I was simply AWARE of the fact that two different schools of thought was going on in empty space:

thought #1) self-consciousness about looking weird because I'm talking to myself

vs.

thought #2) Oh man... that person is looking at me... I'm feeling dumb talking to myself

I even started to "be" the thought. I stepped into thought #1 and looked at the world through that filter. But it was impossible to get caught up in the thought. Through this angle, I was able to "see" how insane it was to cause my own suffering. Thus, I didn't feel a hint of unease as I talked outloud with people passing by me. I decided to experiment again. As I was thinking of what issue/situation/problem to experiment with, the following came up: "How about experimenting with the BiGGEST pain-body that's been messing with me for the past 15 years? My main burden that's been causing so much negativity and pain.. the heaviest cross I bear." I was able to "see" that these thoughts were a mirror image of this pain-body. I was then able to "see" the opposing force or thought... both thoughts ALWAYS in opposition... instantly, ALL tension & unease totally dissolved. I felt incredibly light, at one with my surroundings, at one with everything I felt a wonderful sense of being "empty." Through that emptiness, something beautiful flowed through me. I actually shed several tears.

Although this happened while stoned, I was still able to achieve the exact same thing when I experimented again sober.

I personally feel that it's not false. I see marijuana as something to help loosen up things.. to help to become more open-minded. A good example of this would be guitar playing. I know this particular song that I played numerous times sober. And then one day I played that same song while stoned. Through that state of mind, I was able to modify the song and come up with some really sweet riffs. Why wasn't I able to achieve that the countless times I played that very same song while in a sober state of mind? Same thing with seeing Life in a new way. When I practice being present-oriented and I do inquiry a lot. But it was only when I was stoned that I was able to have come up with those new perspectives that were freeing to me.

spikyface
Posts: 383
Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2007 11:40 am
Location: Sheffield, England

Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by spikyface » Sat Jan 17, 2009 6:35 am

Interesting stuff peleke and also excellent to hear you've observed inner workings of your self in action, kudos
Do not take anyone as an authority on what you are. Ultimately all the answers lie within

peleke4
Posts: 223
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:52 am

Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by peleke4 » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:38 am

spikyface wrote:Interesting stuff peleke and also excellent to hear you've observed inner workings of your self in action, kudos
I just read your response to this thread. I feel that my experience mirrors what you were saying... about how weed can still the mind just long enough for one to see things from a new angle

User avatar
MeMeMine
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 3:17 am
Location: Ojai, California
Contact:

Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by MeMeMine » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:01 am

Yeah Peleke... nice descriptions on the inner body awareness. That's where you want to be... good stuff.

Spikeyface - kudos to you on the insightful post.
Seize the moment and ride that moment into eternity. J. Matus

hajduk
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:52 am

Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by hajduk » Sun Nov 24, 2013 1:36 am

First, I wanna say hi to everyone. I am new on this forum and it is very nice to read you all and meet you all :D ...

This topic was of much interest for me, for past few years. Marijuana actually, in a way some of describe, led me to awakening. When I sometimes think back, it makes mi jiggle :D. Marijuana, and then later mushrooms enabled me to experience the Self, or let's say the gloomy experience of Self, or like some of you guys say, the shift of consciousness. The road went on with Power of Now, and Eckhart Tolle, and books and audio materials of Alan Watts. I would recommend if you are not already familiar with his opus, especially to this subject. For the end I would like to quote Alan, in regards with psychedelic drugs: "When you get the message hang up the phone."

http://terebess.hu/english/watts3.html

Above is very good articles dealing the subject of this topic and more(for example, value of Psychotic Experience, Nature of Consciousness, Taoism, Zen ). For the end I wanted to share with you guys one thought that comes in my mind, private Buddha, what Alan Watts describes in one of his books:" Mahayanas say 'You're little just get a few people who are very, very tough ascetics, and takes them across the shore to nirvana.' But the great vehicle shows people that nirvana is not different from everyday life. So that when you have reached nirvana, if you think 'Now I have attained it, now I have succeeded, now I have caught the secret of the universe, and I am at peace,' you have only a false peace. You have become a stone buddha. You have a new illusion of the changeless. So it is said that such a person is a pratyeka-buddha. That means 'private buddha.' 'I've got it all for myself.' And in contrast with this kind of pratyeka- buddha, who gains nirvana and stays there, the Mahayanas use the word 'bodhisattva'. 'Sattva' means 'essential principle'; 'bodhi,' awakening " "

User avatar
dijmart
Posts: 2107
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:35 pm

Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by dijmart » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:02 pm

I don't have anything to add...But, I see it's your first post, just want to let you know no one has commented on this thread for 4 years... So, I don't know if the people on this thread are still following it or not.
Take what you like and leave the rest.

soap
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2013 2:11 pm

Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by soap » Thu Nov 28, 2013 9:39 pm

I like Alan Watts' quote on the subject of using drugs for spiritual purposes - "If you get the message, hang up the phone." He was referring to psys, but it still applies I would say.

Personally I think when I first started using cannabis it was very helpful. I still wasn't remotely spiritual then, but just the fact that I viewed everything so differently after a smoke opened up the possibility that there was more to this reality than meets the eye. I have also had a few flashes of insight that have stuck with me which probably wouldn't have happened without weed. As discussed though, it doesn't stay that way. After a while I found that all it did was accelerate and intensify the extent I would "go into my head". I still smoke with close friends because I enjoy the sort of banter it creates but I wouldn't rely on it to take me higher states of consciousness.

Imhappybal
Posts: 1
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:23 pm

Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by Imhappybal » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:42 pm

You can get a taste of truth with weed
But to be in no mind state you need to start from beginning. By watching the thoughts.

Post Reply