"Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

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Glycine
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Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by Glycine » Tue Dec 30, 2008 11:37 pm

I guess it's my turn to recommend a book:
"Food of the Gods" by Terence McKenna

This book describes most plants and drugs that were used to alter brain consciousness since the beginning of human evolution.
It starts with ancient primates and ends with the current "war on drugs".

McKenna: magic mushrooms, used in a spiritually enlightened, ritual manner, can open the door to greater consciousness and further the course of human evolution- -legalization of all drugs therefore is, he says, an urgent necessity.

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MeMeMine
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Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by MeMeMine » Wed Dec 31, 2008 3:37 am

Interesting replies...
McKenna: magic mushrooms, used in a spiritually enlightened, ritual manner, can open the door to greater consciousness and further the course of human evolution- -legalization of all drugs therefore is, he says, an urgent necessity.


I feel that mushrooms and marijuana can be used as tools to trigger insights. I've had my own experiences to confirm this but what comes to my mind is an example from one of Castenadas tales with his shaman teacher Jaun Matus.

Matus was always struggling with Castenedas stubborn nature. He was so absorbed in the mind that he could rarely step out and 'see' what Matus was teaching. Interestingly the shaman's presence was usually enough to bump him into a heightened state of awareness, but without that help he would slip back into the muddy waters of his unconscious thought forms.

Finally his teacher resorted to a blend of smoke - combining mushrooms and some herbs - that he used repeatedly, and carefully, to help Casteneda shift his point of perception. It did help launch him out of his confined mindset.

Personally, I can see how these drugs can help alter perception, but not as a crutch... more like a tool. Same goes for Ayhuasca and it's ability to open the heart, though I haven't tried that yet...
Seize the moment and ride that moment into eternity. J. Matus

Glycine
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Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by Glycine » Wed Dec 31, 2008 6:08 am

Based on current knowledge in pharmacology, we should consider that these substances do not create any new functions in the brain - they only alter existing functions (enhance or inhibit intercellular communication).

On another topic mentioned above, the "string theory" in physics proposes that everything in the universe is created by tiny strings vibrating in some superior dimension. At atomic and subatomic levels we truly are one with everything....
Last edited by Glycine on Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

goldenbirdies
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Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by goldenbirdies » Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:15 pm

Glycine wrote:Smoking will never take you beyond mind/brain. Most of what you get is based on various illusions.
I agree. Not to mention that at best its a temporary fix, and no substitute for the deep inner peace available through enlightenment.

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domokato
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Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by domokato » Thu Jan 01, 2009 12:17 am

One thing hallucinogenic and psychedelic drugs does is allows us to see just how fragile our interface with the physical world is, and how different it can be from the sober state. It provides a new point of view, literally. It's an experience like no other, and as far as we can tell the only reason we're here is to have experiences. Who is it that said, life is consciousness exploring itself through form?
~housecat

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Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by Sighclone » Thu Jan 01, 2009 9:47 am

There is an old nondual phrase, I think from the Buddhist tradition: "Drug experiences will bring you to the doorway but prohibit entrance."

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

goldenbirdies
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Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by goldenbirdies » Thu Jan 01, 2009 1:02 pm

Sighclone wrote:There is an old nondual phrase, I think from the Buddhist tradition: "Drug experiences will bring you to the doorway but prohibit entrance.
One things for sure, it'll get you closer to the door than alcohol. You may also have some laughs. But its temporary.

Harmonious new year...

David
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Steal Softly through Sunshine, Steal Softly through Snow - Don Van Vliet

Glycine
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Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by Glycine » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:31 pm

domokato wrote:One thing hallucinogenic and psychedelic drugs does is allows us to see just how fragile our interface with the physical world is, and how different it can be from the sober state.
You are right domokato - this is especially obvious with drugs such as LDS, when a ridiculously low amount of drug scrambles the brain completely. An important problem with these drugs is the appearance of side-effects: some people have gone "irreversibly crazy" after only one dose of LSD.

Regarding the density of matter - not all theories consider that atoms are 99.99....% empty. The atoms look that empty only if we look for mass that is influenced by gravity; otherwise, from an electromagnetic field point of view, atoms are 100% full.
Also, some theories do not consider the void as being empty - the void is just a region where all the waves oscillate in such a way that they continuously cancel each other (from a solid matter point of view). When the waves stop canceling each other, matter appears!

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Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by MeMeMine » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:47 pm

domokato wrote:
It provides a new point of view, literally. It's an experience like no other, and as far as we can tell the only reason we're here is to have experiences.
This is how I see it too...

I would recommend the experience to everyone; especially those that are adamantly against it :mrgreen:.
Just an example - My brother would harp on me for exploring these paths and take great pleasure in putting me down and criticizing... yet if anybody needs a good dose of a 'shift in perception', it would be him, for reasons I won't go into here. In the end though, it is just another experience... quite possibly a profound one. Just my 2cents!
Seize the moment and ride that moment into eternity. J. Matus

Glycine
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Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by Glycine » Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:44 pm

MeMeMine wrote: I would recommend the experience to everyone; especially those that are adamantly against it
It could be interesting, but what exactly would you recommend? There are hundreds of drugs, hundreds of mixtures, and tens of doses, leading to several hundred thousand combinations. Also, the effect depends on previous mental states.
If one were to try all these, s/he could be in big trouble (addiction, adverse reactions). :shock:
Maybe: only a few brave people should try these.
The fact that there are so many possible outcomes suggests that all these chemical-induced experiences may be just illusions.
Last edited by Glycine on Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

wander
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Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by wander » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:00 am

hmm well you weren't asking me but ill give an answer.

Its is kinda hard to truly recommend something that can potentially get you into a lot of trouble. With the law and with health. However if you fully understand the risks i would think one should start with trying marijuana if they have not already. AS i have already shown it produces some quite wonderful effects on my thought pattern. Beyond that i would go with some psilocybin mushrooms. I have never had touble with either of these and i believe any problems are quite rare. Of course before one were to attempt either of these it would be good to have some knowledge. http://www.erowid.org is my favorite starting point.


Back to my posting topic, i dont think anyone has truly directly answered my question. Has no one here had experiences with marijuana similar to mine and found that meditation or presence has produced the same effects?

EDIT: Anyone besides Domokoto? I guess i really just want to know what to expect from mediation, hoping it will motivate me to start. I mean i know it will be beneficial but its been very hard for me to start a routine.

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Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by Glycine » Sat Jan 03, 2009 12:28 am

Thank you for your answer, Wander.
I'm sorry I can't give you a direct answer - I never tried it (I'm afraid of side-effects).

I strongly recommend trying to obtain awareness without any drug - and as a bonus you get to keep a sharp mind and body as tools.
Most of the enlightened teachers have done it through self-realization and meditation - I guess!

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Onceler
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Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by Onceler » Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:39 am

I have tried both and have found meditation to be longer lasting and more benificial to experiencing presence. Drugs gave me anxiety and distorted thinking in the long run. Meditation can give clarity, especially if you follow something similar to Adya's recommendations in "True Meditations".

I have had times in presence when I have felt like I am "high", only clearer. I would recommend giving it a try!
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by MeMeMine » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:04 pm

Wander wrote:I would say this is quite true. However i still smoke weed from time to time and really havent gotten started with meditation ( thougth it will be my #1 new years resolution!). But what i am wondering is with meditation will i likely come to the same realizations that i get from smoking marijuana? These thoughts i get when i am high make me feel much better about my life becuase when i feel that onenness and wisdom and so on i dont really have any other concern. Has anyone had the smae experiences with marijuana and then whet on to meditate? And how were the meditation experiences similar? How were they different?
Hey Wander - In my experience with meditation (and I think most everybody here at the forums has it right) there is a slow, gradual unfolding. It's a discovery process on how the mind behaves. I think the HIGH that you speak of may come later (or much later... depending) once you have shed some of your mind patterns.

A little back story - My interest in meditation started years ago when I was about 28. I was intrigued by zen buddhism, so I began training in a nearby temple. I found this to be a great experience as I learned from a well trained practitioner. Plus I enjoyed the support of others as we all practiced. I was really into it for years, going several times a week, and I have to tell ya I never had HIGH experiences like you get from drugs. It's a far more gentle process... and I rarely do drugs now by the way.

The benefits of practicing meditation will surpass any short-term highs that drugs offer, this I feel strongly about. Meditation is subtle and you may not feel that you're benefiting from it right away. The ego does not like to be observed so closely and the resistance can be brutal in the way of boredom, fidgeting, and restlessness.

You might take the Zen Master D.T. Suzuki's advice when confronted with endless questions about how to meditate. His reply? Just Sit

Coming full circle on the drug issue... I still believe that the experience, even just once, can be valuable when it comes to shifting our perception. So many of us are fixated in how we perceive the world...
Seize the moment and ride that moment into eternity. J. Matus

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Re: "Marijuana and False Enlightenment"

Post by peleke4 » Sat Jan 03, 2009 8:34 pm

just want to add that marijuana does an amazing job of getting in touch with the inner body

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