Not all animals are continuously living in the present!

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
Glycine
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Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:42 pm

Re: Not all animals are continuously living in the present!

Post by Glycine » Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:57 am

thenow wrote:1)is human nature or animal nature at its most innocent state, equal to universal consciousness?
Animals seem to have a much smaller ego (even none - many of them), so I would say animals are more innocent.
2)Can universal consciousness be manifested only when there is no individual agenda, other than universal agenda?
The individual agenda appears to be an illusion - so maybe what's happening is that there's always only universal agenda. But because of the illusion of separation, it looks like there are separate individuals.
3) Is natural selection on the agenda of universal consciousness? ( Isn't this how the foos chain works, without which, there will be too many rabbits, if there is no eagles hunting them to balance the whole system.)
I would say that everything is happening as it is supposed to, but it certainly doesn't seem this way always....

thenow
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Re: Not all animals are continuously living in the present!

Post by thenow » Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:51 pm

Glycine wrote:
3) Is natural selection on the agenda of universal consciousness? ( Isn't this how the foos chain works, without which, there will be too many rabbits, if there is no eagles hunting them to balance the whole system.)
I would say that everything is happening as it is supposed to, but it certainly doesn't seem this way always....
Thank you Glycine:

Sometimes when we see or hear about a violent death, our heart break for such an occurrence. Death is just a part of a natural cycle, but why does it need to be so violent and cruel sometimes?

I often put out food for the couple of stray cats outside of our apartment building. When the winter weather gets icy cold and 20 degrees below zero, I often feel sad for the cats outside. These apparently look like abandoned by their owners after they move or maybe the cats got lost themselves. They don't look like wild cats.

I called animal shelters for them to pick up the cats, but no one would return my call.

While I put out food and they are fed, they will produce more cats to suffer in this unfriendly world for animals. But if I don;t feed them, they might suffer in hunger in the icy cold.

Are we supposed not to be affected by such situations?

When I suffer in this sadness by these cats suffering, I am not being compassionate to myself either.

Glycine
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Re: Not all animals are continuously living in the present!

Post by Glycine » Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:32 pm

Hello "TheNow",

If you feel a strong compassion for animals, you should definitely try to help animals as much as you can - but do not identify with this worthy cause. You should also investigate where this compassion comes from. However, do not make the mistake of considering that people who don't care about animals are doing something wrong.
There is a good discussion about your question at this link (on this forum):
http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... f=8&t=5266

thenow
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Re: Not all animals are continuously living in the present!

Post by thenow » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:17 am

Glycine wrote:Hello "TheNow",

If you feel a strong compassion for animals, you should definitely try to help animals as much as you can - but do not identify with this worthy cause. You should also investigate where this compassion comes from. However, do not make the mistake of considering that people who don't care about animals are doing something wrong.
There is a good discussion about your question at this link (on this forum):
http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... f=8&t=5266
I just don't understand why people have to run over the seagull while seeing them right in front of his car. He drove right over them there eating a pile of food on the road!!

I feel compassionate of that unconscious act, while also feeling the deep sadness for the unnecessarily violent death.

Thank you for the link! It was helpful!

Tara
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Re: Not all animals are continuously living in the present!

Post by Tara » Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:37 pm

I was walking the other day and "trying" to just be and hear and feel nature. As I watched my footsteps I saw a little spider ...and I stepped on it. Immediately I "thought" why did I do that? I could have avoided it.

Here is a link to an interesting story from Byron Katie about a cat and her daughter. It shows many different human "sides" to having this cat, what happens to it and relationships they now have with animals. (it is the second post-long)

http://www.instituteforthework.com/comm ... ic&p=23679

I had a horse when I was younger (teen) loved him! He was 11 when I got him. Had lived before with one owner and was trained very well. I could call him and he would come. I could just hop on him with no reins or anything and ride him. I loved him, bathed him and "thought" I took good care of him. Bu to this day family has passed on how I didn't take that good of care of him because I didn't pay attention to his hooves. Maybe so, but no one told me THEN. How would I know to take care of that if I didn't know?

I can't wrap my "thinking" around abuse of an animal or human...but I can usually turn it around and find I have done something too...

Kath
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Location: Vancouver Island

Re: Not all animals are continuously living in the present!

Post by Kath » Mon Feb 23, 2009 6:10 pm

I think when you concious, when you are present, you are more aware of your surroundings and other creatures. You may not know the finer details of hoof care, but you may be aware of an animal's discomfort and the more familiar you become with the animal, the more you can pinpoint problems. That's part of the famous "stockman's eye". Over time, a livestock or pet owner can glance over his animals and "know" when an individual is having a problem. I think mothers can relate to this!

I do believe that animals act mostly if not always from instinct. A healthy animal has a strong will to survive and will perform some interesting acts to achieve that. Even bonds of loyalty arise from the flocking/pack/herd instinct although they would appear to humans as "love" or "friendship". I think they are constantly present but that doesn't stop them from "anticipating" their dinner at certain times of the day! But that is a learned behaviour.

Must dash now and feed the gang who are doubtless wondering where I am. The sheep are to be shorn today and if they were humans they would be stressed out already worrying about how they hate being handled by a stranger, the inevitable nicks from the shearing, the loss of a warm coat in the cold weather (they have a nice cosy barn and lots of pals to snuggle up with and if they start to shiver, their slave comes and sets up heat lamps...) and on it goes.

Kath

Peaceman
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Re: Not all animals are continuously living in the present!

Post by Peaceman » Wed Mar 04, 2009 3:36 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: So did I James!!

sikor
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Re: Not all animals are continuously living in the present!

Post by sikor » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:45 pm

yeah, i realised that when few days ago i was petting my friend's cat and the dog got jealosu of him. he started barking at whining when he saw me petting him. jealousy is the pure egoistic behavior. i have little theory that ego is something very primitive, that is no longer needed(or not needed to certain degree) for human.


i think the species that are enlighened may be for example ants. ants are very mysterious to science because of hive mind. ants know excatly what to do, they are extremely well organised without much communication. there cant be individuals there.


(those are my own theories i made up recently, they seem kind of right to me but i know they may be also completely false so don't attach yourself to them)

Glycine
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Re: Not all animals are continuously living in the present!

Post by Glycine » Thu Apr 09, 2009 6:19 pm

sikor wrote:yeah, i realised that when few days ago i was petting my friend's cat and the dog got jealous of him.
I guess we could say that awareness can become identified with many forms, not only humans.

Tony-S-Ma
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Re: Not all animals are continuously living in the present!

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:15 pm

Perhaps, it is better to ask whether ET is continuously living in the present. If he is not, his writing will reflect it. It seems, continuously be in the present precludes manifestation in physical forms.

The National Geographic show called Dog Whisperer has many examples on dogs not living in the present.

ppinny
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Location: REPUBLIC OF PANAMA

Re: Not all animals are continuously living in the present!

Post by ppinny » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:12 pm

Hi all,

On reflecting about the relationship my partner and i had recently with a little monkey, (he died two weeks ago), i would say there are animals with no discernible ego, who live totally in the moment. I am not sure all species of monkey are this way; maybe not even others of the same species as "our" one. Maybe, like humans, some individuals are and some aren't.

Our experience was definitely not that his survival instinct led him to behave in ways that may appear to be based in love or affection. His total presence and our growing presence, under his guidance, led to a relationship that was something else, something more intimate and deeper than "love".

Paul and Sarah.

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