Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

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JWSthe3rd
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Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by JWSthe3rd » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:12 pm

I have been studying Buddhism and reading Eckhart Tolle's books, "A New Earth" and "The Power of Now". I understand that a person can become more peaceful with his inner being if he learns to dissolve his self-created ego. However, I feel that a loss of ego would eventually have negative effects on a person's social and romantic life, since most everyone lives from their ego normally. I think people might perceive an ego-less person as odd, careless, and indecisive. How can a person manage friendships and romantic relationships while living in an ego-less state of pure consciousness?

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by piercej » Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:59 pm

Maybe it depends on what your social surroundings consist of, and the nature of your romantic relationships.

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by JWSthe3rd » Wed Feb 04, 2009 11:22 pm

I'm guessing that it would eliminate the falseness in my current relationships, and encourage relationships that are based in truth. I am homosexual, and as some of you might know, many gay men have dysfunctional upbringings and destructive egos that make them either feel superior or inferior to others. I just have a fear that if I dissolve my ego, I will end up spending a lot of time alone because people, in general, won't be able to understand. I know that's a fear that my own ego has created, and it is likely false, but I am having a difficult time getting around it.

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by Sighclone » Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:46 am

Welcome JWS. Check out "Love and Awakening" by John Welwood, and also his book "Toward a Psychology of Awakening," particularly the third section on relationships.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by +Jim+ » Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:22 am

JWSthe3rd wrote:I have been studying Buddhism and reading Eckhart Tolle's books, "A New Earth" and "The Power of Now". I understand that a person can become more peaceful with his inner being if he learns to dissolve his self-created ego.
Hi JWS
You say " I understand that a person can become more peaceful with his inner being if he learns to dissolve his self-created ego."
But what understanding is that?
At best it's an understanding of the usage of the English language.
You don't know that it's true, you have just accepted the words of another.... it has become a belief for you (and even this belief you are unsure about it's value to you).

Begin simply.
You use the word 'ego' do you know what that means - do you have a direct relationship to the reality of that?
Do you know what thought is?
Do you know the significance or insignificance of thought?
Begin there..... observe for yourself and inquire.

There are thousands of books with thousands of 'teachings' available..... how will you discover what's true?
Will you read them all? What will you do then?
I suggest you explore what it means to accept second-hand knowledge, and what the relationship is between belief and reality.

Life is incredibly beautiful when we are simple - unfortunately, most people never discover this.
Intellectual understanding is totally inadequate for meeting daily life.
It's like attempting to nourish yourself on the memory of yesterday's lunch!


http://simplyenlightening.wordpress.com/about/

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by kiki » Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:41 pm

I understand that a person can become more peaceful with his inner being if he learns to dissolve his self-created ego.
There seems to be a misunderstanding here that is quite fundamental to understanding what awakening is, and that misunderstanding has created certain ideas about what will then happen. Many people think that ego dissolves or dies, and that is not true. What happens is that attachment to it dissolves when ego is seen for the illusion that it is. Ego remains post awakening, but primarily as a handy tool to use within the world of form, and then drops away when not needed, but even when present it is no longer mistaken for "me". When there is no attachment, no longer a belief that ego is "me", it tends to drop away spontaneously. This is what must be discovered for yourself - no second hand knowledge will be enough. So find out what is true and then see what happens. But no matter what happens it will be "what is", and in that there is acceptance.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
---

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by doug » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:05 pm

isn't forward thinking wondering and planning of possible behaviour when this or that changes more of the same mind/ego involvement in our "path"?

Is this what's called the "enlightenment of the ego" itself?

these thoughts of "how will my relationships be?"can't exist in the present or at least they are observed rather then pursued?

Several of you know the answer to this tricky (for me) question and I for one would appreciate clarification either here or PM....thanks!

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by DWBH1953 » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:15 pm

doug wrote:isn't forward thinking wondering and planning of possible behaviour when this or that changes more of the same mind/ego involvement in our "path"?

Is this what's called the "enlightenment of the ego" itself?

these thoughts of "how will my relationships be?"can't exist in the present or at least they are observed rather then pursued?

Several of you know the answer to this tricky (for me) question and I for one would appreciate clarification either here or PM....thanks!
Hi Doug,
Ego is just another concept, below is a real nice piece on this I just read a little long but answers these questions very well in my opinion..


Q: “My enlightened friend tells me that there comes a time all at once, when the last drop of ego falls away and there is conscious presence all the time and the ego thoughts just vanish. This though creates another concept. Any comment?”

C: With all respect to your friend, that is one of the bullshit myths of “enlightenment”. You are quite right in noticing that this statement merely gives you another conceptual “thing that must happen to me someday” for “me to be whole, complete, and thought free abiding as Presence Awareness.” Moreover, the pointer to investigate shows the absolute NON-existence of any “ego”. So where is this ego of which the “last drop falls away”? It was never there to begin with! That sort of teaching – while no doubt well-intentioned – is a reinforcement of the notion that there IS an “ego” that must “at some time” fall away. But time is conceptual and not real in fact, so you have a false belief posing as truth. Seeing through that nonsense is what all authentic expressions are pointing to. Right now there is awakeness, awareness and presence wherever “you” go, isn’t there? That is never missing. That is what we label The Eternal State (in FACT, not as a concept; that is it is not actually a passing thing or state but the True Stateless Awareness that becomes aware in waking consciousness or dream consciousness, gets misidentified as an illusory “me-persona’, which all goes back into Nowhere/Everywhere in deep sleep. Awareness is a name for No Thing appearing as all that sees real owing to Its own power of “Maya” – Waking Dream Power).

The bottom line is you are dreaming. And awareness is what the Real You is; impersonally and absolutely free and open, space like and timeless.

So keep looking for an ego until it’s crystal clear that there is no such thing. Any identity is false; what is real is only pointed to as “Not That Not That”.

Beyond any description, prior within and after all apparent experiences in apparent time, YOU ARE. I AM. That I AM is what IS, as some call it, ordinary being-awareness. Just This and nothing else. NOTHING else.

Love to you.
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by +Jim+ » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:16 am

kiki wrote: There seems to be a misunderstanding here that is quite fundamental to understanding what awakening is, and that misunderstanding has created certain ideas about what will then happen. Many people think that ego dissolves or dies, and that is not true. What happens is that attachment to it dissolves when ego is seen for the illusion that it is. Ego remains post awakening, but primarily as a handy tool to use within the world of form, and then drops away when not needed, but even when present it is no longer mistaken for "me".
Dear Kiki, can't you see that you also are caught in a misunderstanding?
Just read what you wrote again.
You say that ego is an illusion, then go on to say that ego remains post enlightenment!!!!!
Not much of an enlightenment that, if it still contains illusions! :?

This is what happens when we accept the words of another - we fall into more confusion.
The only awakening that happens, happens when we discover for ourselves the true and the false.
No teacher can give that to you - you may say that they provide pointers, but most teachers are only pointing at their own mistaken concepts. How will you know who's pointing is valid?

Start where you are.
Begin with inquiring into thought - observe and discover for yourself.
Intellectual understanding is totally inadequate for meeting daily life.
It's like attempting to nourish yourself on the memory of yesterday's lunch!


http://simplyenlightening.wordpress.com/about/

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by Sighclone » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:23 am

All the world's a stage, Jim. Even enlightened beings can enjoy theater. Suffering is not knowing the stage from the foyer from the mind of the architect, and not knowing the characters from the actors and the actors from the Source.

Samsara doesn't end when nirvana is found; the emporer's clothes just fall off, they don't disappear.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by +Jim+ » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:21 pm

Sighclone wrote:All the world's a stage, Jim. Even enlightened beings can enjoy theater. Suffering is not knowing the stage from the foyer from the mind of the architect, and not knowing the characters from the actors and the actors from the Source.

Samsara doesn't end when nirvana is found; the emporer's clothes just fall off, they don't disappear.

Namaste, Andy
What a befuddled muddle you weave with those thoughts of yours Andy.
Images, mixed metaphors and inaccurate analogies - it all sounds so impressive to one that's confused.

By the way Andy, the emporer's new clothes never existed! :lol:
Now that's almost an accurate analogy for the ego.
Intellectual understanding is totally inadequate for meeting daily life.
It's like attempting to nourish yourself on the memory of yesterday's lunch!


http://simplyenlightening.wordpress.com/about/

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by Webwanderer » Sun Feb 08, 2009 3:30 pm

Does an illusion remain an illusion if one knows it's an illusion? Or does it just lose its power to deceive? If one sees a mirage of a pool of fresh water and think that it might quench the thirst, would that one still seek to drink of it once its illusory nature is realized? And does one still answer to a familiar name once it's clear the me they thought they were was only a belief?

WW

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by eagle2phoenix » Sun Feb 08, 2009 4:01 pm

Sorry, I am losing all of you. Simple short English please. I thought ego is the self that is reactive, opinionated, judgmental, critical, biased. To be ego-less in the human sense is to be non-reactive, non-judgmental, non-critical, unbiased. Therefore, to be ego-less will lead to a positive world. One can go into a relationship on an ego-less basis, all positive and creative. So all will live in love, peace and harmony.

Being ego-less also means the brain can think without being led by the ego. Everything is seen with love and compassion. An example is Jesus. He is always present. Even when he chased out the peddlers out of the temple, he was not thinking poorly of th people, instead he was teaching the people that the house of God is for praying. And in his agony when he called out "Father why have you abandoned me?" was called out from his very being.

But easier said than done. I can be so present and have a good day at the park looking at trees. I can ignore impatient drivers most of the time but sometimes my ego gets in the way and I snap. A nasty thought comes into the mind and my eyes roll. Then I have to say to myself, leave it dear. Let it go. :lol:

Love & Light
Life is fascinating. Nature is beautiful. Live life with nature.

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by Sighclone » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:18 pm

The ego is a collection of thought-streams and memories, as ET says, "A false self, created by unconscious idenitification with the mind..." (PON, p. 22). It may or may not be "reactive, opinionated, judgmental, critical, biased." It might be utterly beneficent, loving, kind, cheerful and humble. But ultimately, It's the false story of your identity.

Your ability to step back from painbody outbursts or egoic ranting is evidence that Source is available to you, working through you.

Our friend + jim + is eager to suggest that the ego is not real. Adyashanti has the same general take. But Eckhart and Ramana both acknowledge the impact and significance of this phantom.

You would do well to read John Welwood's "Toward a Psychology of Awakening" for a longer discussion of ego, using Western and Eastern terms for a better picture.

To say something is an illusion presumes we all have the same vantage point, or level of consciousness for distinguishing illusions from reality. To add or subtract weight from the illusion also requires an agreement of how we measure that importance.

The "Direct Path" folks will discourage you from any thinking about this at all. They have a point, but sometimes, absent any understanding, people get confused, bewildered and sad. The purpose of this forum is to provide an area for words to act as pointers. Some fall flat for some people, some illuminate. All of them are good, because the effort is to help people. A few insults and attacks are OK, too. :)

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by DWBH1953 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:15 pm

Sighclone wrote:The ego is a collection of thought-streams and memories, as ET says, "A false self, created by unconscious idenitification with the mind..." (PON, p. 22). It may or may not be "reactive, opinionated, judgmental, critical, biased." It might be utterly beneficent, loving, kind, cheerful and humble. But ultimately, It's the false story of your identity.

Your ability to step back from painbody outbursts or egoic ranting is evidence that Source is available to you, working through you.

Our friend + jim + is eager to suggest that the ego is not real. Adyashanti has the same general take. But Eckhart and Ramana both acknowledge the impact and significance of this phantom.

Namaste, Andy
Actually Andy Ramana said over and over that there is no such thing as a ego.
He challenge anyone to go and find this thing called ego and you will find nothing there.
I do understand your point also Andy you see here is the issue that alwasy happens with different teachers you have ET putting his own label on what he calls a ego and people follow ET from his point of view and then you have someone like Adya or Ramana that tells you there is no ego . I prefer it very simple I do not deal with it an care less if there is a ego or not I just call it all mind simple as that. If som want to add on another element to the mind and call it ego so what for me keep it simple it is just the mind.
Once people start playing with the mind and breaking it into all little nice compartments for me at least it just makes everything much more complex.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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