Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

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doug
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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by doug » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:32 pm

it is definitely easier to understand what is happening using the ego concept...yes, it is all mind and the mind has a specific job when it comes to ego as apparently the minds number one priority...me, me, and more me

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DWBH1953
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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by DWBH1953 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:49 pm

doug wrote:it is definitely easier to understand what is happening using the ego concept...yes, it is all mind and the mind has a specific job when it comes to ego as apparently the minds number one priority...me, me, and more me
Great if that works well for you stay with it. It does not for me. Then again I am not so much into understanding non duality as it is just a setup for the mind to play and question to no end. When you become relax with a quiet mind your natural you shines through and with it comes direct knowing and for me this has always been the best approach to enlightenment.
Cheers
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by Sighclone » Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:09 pm

Ramana did not deny the impact of the ego: From the ninth edition of "Talks...", page 23 - 25:
The ego is of the nature or intelligence...the "I-thought" is the all-important thought. Personality-idea or thought is also the root or the stem of all other thoughts, since each idea or thought arises only as someone's thought and is not known to exist independently of the ego. The ego therefore exhibits thought-activity....the "I" idea arises to an embodied ego and should be related to a body or organism."
It's a problem with semantics. Illusions exist. WW's example of a mirage is a good one. It looks very real. Even if it is just a ghost. Ramana says further in "Be As You Are," 1985, p. 53:
This ghostly ego...comes into existence by grasping a form; grasping a form it endures; leaving one form it grasps another form...Ego is like that caterpillar which leaves its hold only after catching another.
Without an ego, and not self-realized, humans are depersonalized. It is a mental illness and diagnosed as such as the "Depersonalization Disorder" in the DSM-IV TR (p. 506) as a "...feeling of detachment or estrangement from one's self." The DSM does go on to say that depersonalization is "a common experience." Nice of them to allow that it might not be terrifying to some. But many people with this disorder are terrified and need medication. Or ET :).

Declaring that the ego does not exist is a denial of what most Westerners know as their identity. Surely, it's correct as a nondualist to assume the Brahmin-consciousness assertion that smasara is an illusion and everything else is too. How does that help someone who is struggling with this ghostly illusion, though? Hitler's non-existant ego was pretty destructive.

You will continue to hear me respect its power, "real" or not, "illusory" or not.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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DWBH1953
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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by DWBH1953 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:03 pm

Sighclone wrote:Ramana did not deny the impact of the ego: From the ninth edition of "Talks...", page 23 - 25:
The ego is of the nature or intelligence...the "I-thought" is the all-important thought. Personality-idea or thought is also the root or the stem of all other thoughts, since each idea or thought arises only as someone's thought and is not known to exist independently of the ego. The ego therefore exhibits thought-activity....the "I" idea arises to an embodied ego and should be related to a body or organism."
Namaste, Andy
LOL you know we could post back and forth from Ramana teachings all day long one place he does not deny the ego but many other places he does. So do many other great teachers.
Like you say real or not, if you label it and put your intention on it you give it power to be really like anything else with the mind. If it is working for you to see the ego as this powerful sometime friend sometime enemy then so be it. I am sure the ego loves to hear itself talked about and cares less if it is good stuff, bad stuff ot indifferent stuff as long as it is not ingored. The poor baby the ego worries a lot!
Leonard J take on the ego is to befriend your ego,talk to your ego and make your ego understand that if you do awake , become awaken that your ego will still be with you it will not die,,talking this way to your ego according to Leonard will help you greatly in the waking up process and will keep your ego as a friend that helps as opposed to a very scared enity that will try to destroy your progress at every turn because it feels it will no longer be if you succeed..
Who knows could work maybe someone needs to come up with some nice calming ego chants for the ego to relax and know it is all OK baby..
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by Juno » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:17 pm

It seems that half or more of most teachings are all about getting the ego to loosen it's grip so the Absolute can be realized. Which is appropriate teachings if one has not realized What they are.
Monica
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by peleke4 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:24 pm

Tolle even points out that when you see the illusion for what it truly is, some people will leave your life and others may enter the picture. Why uphold the ego to maintain a friendship that was ego-based anyway? But then again, even if you wanted to uphold the relationship, it's be impossible to get caught up in ego since consciousness would be in the picture anyway.
Last edited by peleke4 on Sun Sep 19, 2010 2:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

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DWBH1953
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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by DWBH1953 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:53 pm

Juno wrote:It seems that half or more of most teachings are all about getting the ego to loosen it's grip so the Absolute can be realized. Which is appropriate teachings if one has not realized What they are.
Monica
Hi Juno,

For some odd reasons my posts are not showing up. I hope this gets through.
I understand what your saying. For myself I did not label anything ego, instead I made it very simple. On one hand I have only Awareness and on the other hand I have mind which includes everything else. For my own awakening all that was needed was a quiet mind so that little by little the mind at peace began to reflect the Awareness that I truly am.
When your relax with a quiet mind it is only natural for the Awareness, your true Self to shine through and becomes reflected by your mind. Then sooner than later came the wholeness of Awareness being reflected and shown to me as ME. The self becaomes aware of the Self. During this journey which I feel continues to this very day I never once label or thought of the ego for me it was always just the mind that could help or hinder my progress. I may be wrong but I feel that when people start to label something as the ego and then they try to get this label thing they call ego to loosen the grip that they are not hekping themselves. What they are doing is creating more resistence to waking up. They are trying to get somewhere and it simply does not work like that.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by Juno » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:31 am

Hi Randji,

I completly get what you are saying too. Where I'm coming from is my experience. I meditated for years but a teacher made the path all of a sudden have direction and all of a sudden directing my mind to the border of seeing. Like Tolle's teaching to sense Stillness and Adya's teaching about allowing were key. With out these teachings I would probably still be in the same mind turmoil that I was, yet meditating : )
It seems that there are many facets to "our experience" before and after awakening. Many paths before. After Realizing it's even more pertinent to not cling to any one facet of our experience. I know you are sharing this direct way of seeing and I think it's a wonderful teaching that I've heard or read and resonated with completly. I'm just on one about not clinging to any one point of view. On one of not clinging to any one facet of my experience. It's just what experience is showing me right now Randji. There is a quote made by Jesus that Adya uses a lot "the foxes have their holes in the ground, the birds have their nests in the trees but for man there is no place to rest his head". No facet to cling to. Something like that. Sorry Jesus. It is a journey that is so wonderful and exciting!

Monica
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by DWBH1953 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 12:52 am

Juno wrote:Hi Randji,

I completly get what you are saying too. Where I'm coming from is my experience. I meditated for years but a teacher made the path all of a sudden have direction and all of a sudden directing my mind to the border of seeing. Like Tolle's teaching to sense Stillness and Adya's teaching about allowing were key. With out these teachings I would probably still be in the same mind turmoil that I was, yet meditating : )
It seems that there are many facets to "our experience" before and after awakening. Many paths before. After Realizing it's even more pertinent to not cling to any one facet of our experience. I know you are sharing this direct way of seeing and I think it's a wonderful teaching that I've heard or read and resonated with completly. I'm just on one about not clinging to any one point of view. On one of not clinging to any one facet of my experience. It's just what experience is showing me right now Randji. There is a quote made by Jesus that Adya uses a lot "the foxes have their holes in the ground, the birds have their nests in the trees but for man there is no place to rest his head". No facet to cling to. Something like that. Sorry Jesus. It is a journey that is so wonderful and exciting!

Monica
Hi Monica,

You may have missunderstood, I am not speaking at all of clinging, you even mentioned it as being KEY. A quiet mind goes a long way to allowing a person to wake up, this does not change much. I am speaking from Awareness now. Awareness never changes, direct seeing is exactly what I am sharing about. I am not sure what you mean by clinging, one certainly does not have anykind of clinging in direct seeing.
Now for sure there are other Keys to waking up and some need no key it just happens out of the blue but for those it can be entirely missed if they have not done any spiritual groundwork, they would simply not know what was happening to them.
I guess what I am trying to say is waking up is not a hard thing at all, it is so simple that if anything because it is that simple it can be missed.
Thanks for your words.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by Juno » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:15 am

I know you are sharing about direct seeing and I appreciate it.
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

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DWBH1953
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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by DWBH1953 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:29 am

Juno wrote:I know you are sharing about direct seeing and I appreciate it.
Good let me just add this because this still feels a bit unclear.
Direct seeing or direct knowing is not a experience as your speaking about.
It just IS, nothing to cling to, it is the same as awakening, waking up is not a experience.
As you know experiences come and go, that which comes and goes is not what I am speaking about.
Ok now I am hungry see what happens!
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by Juno » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:43 am

For me waking up was an experience, I was up out my seat laughing uncotrollably. What followed, the knowing is not an experience it is just what we are as you know, nothing to cling to. I did have one more experience of the void after awakening that showed me even deeper what I/everything is and once again nothing to cling to just a deeper knowing due to the experience. Without those experiences I would not know. Both of these experiences shifted the perception in this body to where less and less of the mind made up stuff has any effect. I know that what you are speaking of is not an experience, it is just what everything and no-thing Is. Direct seeing, direct knowing however one wants to put it.

Monica
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by DWBH1953 » Mon Feb 09, 2009 1:48 am

Juno wrote:For me waking up was an experience, I was up out my seat laughing uncotrollably. What followed, the knowing is not an experience it is just what we are as you know, nothing to cling to. I did have one more experience of the void after awakening that showed me even deeper what I/everything is and once again nothing to cling to just a deeper knowing due to the experience. Without those experiences I would not know. Both of these experiences shifted the perception in this body to where less and less of the mind made up stuff has any effect. I know that what you are speaking of is not an experience, it is just what everything and no-thing Is. Direct seeing, direct knowing however one wants to put it.

Monica
Exactly I like the word Void that you use. I guess it just the use of words that makes it hard to communicate at times. I say waking up is not a experience because it does not come and go it stays with you.
Nice chatting with you
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by Juno » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:05 am

Nice to chat with you. :)

Monica
by thinking of something you create an entity and by thinking of nothing you create another. Let such erroneous thinking perish utterly, and then nothing will remain for you to go seeking!
Huang Po

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Re: Does becoming ego-less have socially negative effects?

Post by Sighclone » Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:16 am

I think each person's final shift is different. I believe the end result, the "place that you get/don't get to," the emptiness dancing, the self-realization, the pure Brahmin bliss, the yada yada... feels the same for everyone who is there. And I believe there are an infinite number of ways of tossing out word-pointers to describe it. And I know I have read at least 400 of them. And I believe is is possible to read 10,000 of them and not be one bit closer to the personal experience.

But we pound away anyway, particularly when it's 5 degrees outside. :)

PS - we're good with all this, Randji - thanks again for joining!

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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