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Re: Confusion

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:25 pm
by Webwanderer
Egos can be cruel, and that is especially true of young egos. But it is an age where we learn clearly that what other people think of us is irrelavent to who we are. It only matters to the degree we believe or fear the condemnation of ignorance. Your salvation is in recognizing the truth of your own essential nature; because in that recognition it is also seen that one's antagonists are living in ignorance of their own nature as well. Their attacks only serve to hide their own fears and insecurities regardless of what they're tying to project for their audience.

Consider deeply - what are you at the most fundamental level? What is your relationship with this moment? These questions are not an invitation to search for an analytical answer of thought and word, but to regain a genuine sense of your true nature through experience. You are what you are, and only through direct experience will you get a true sense of it.

So long as you are caught up in the thinking about what others think, and fear their antagonism you will be distracted from what really matters. There is a strength in knowing that makes such antagonism a curiousity rather than a painful experience. Once there is no longer a sense of being a victim of abuse, our abusers tend to move on to other targets. It's not a particularly comfortable feeling to attack someone and have that one look back at you with compassionate acceptance because they see you more deeply than you see yourself. It's a feeling of being exposed and egos prefer to avoid exposure.

There is an excellent movie out there called "Powder" that exemplifies this. Check it out.


WW

Re: Confusion

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:13 pm
by soapbox
I've gone to the school councelor many times...it doesn't do much good for me and I don't think it would be a good idea to go back. I don't want to go to any psychiatrists, I just need somebody who knows counceling. It feels like none of it helps, though, because it doesn't forward my understanding of myself...like I said before, I'm so damn confused with understanding everything that I don't know where or what to do. People tell me to be silent but I seem to never notice anything different. Thoughts about people hurting me in the past still haunt me daily, and I haunt myself over not being the way that I think other people should see me.

Re: Confusion

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:59 pm
by Onceler
I would recommend finding a therapist that specializes in cognitive therapy. It is the most effective therapy and focuses on thinking "mistakes"; sound familiar? It actually can meet the work/philosophy of non-dualism half way by encouraging you to examine your thinking for accuracy and reality and then change it so that it is more congruent with what is true or real (of course, non-dualism goes much further by encouraging the examination of the thinker itself).

For a taste of this, check out Byron Katie's work. She is not a trained therapist, but her "work" is similar enough to cognitive therapy and you can feel the power of it by downloading some worksheets and doing her questions on your own. I would still recommend working with a cognitive therapist for a couple of weeks or months to get a good grounding and support in how to question your thinking.

Also you may want to lay non-dualism aside for a short time and come back to it when you are more cognitively/emotionally stable. Some say you have to have a healthy ego in order to lose it....you may find that when you ease off the pressure to "get it", you will get it. Happened to me.

Take care,

Re: Confusion

Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:40 pm
by James
I agree with Onceler, the root of your issues is most likely thinking, and a cognitive approach would address that.

I would add something though, since you wrote:
Thoughts about people hurting me in the past still haunt me daily, and I haunt myself over not being the way that I think other people should see me.
To me it sounds like you have a lot of accumulated emotional pain, from the past. Almost like a Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, where the old emotions keep resurfacing and create a feeling of being out of control. This repressed pain can get lodged in your body physically and emotionally. The repressed pain then seems disconnected from your thinking. It may surface as anger or frustration. But that is just the surface level. The anger is then projected onto others and the world, and in doing so convincing yourself that you are a victim. Beneath anger is always some form of hurt or fear. Sometimes changing your current thinking is not enough. You may need to bring up the old pain, feel it fully, and accept it, so it may heal; and that may take time. The body and mind need to be more integrated. You strike me as being very intellectual. Someone that probably spends most of their time in thinking and in mental activities. That was why I suggested exercise, hot baths, yoga, moving meditations, even massage therapy, combined with some type of cognitive therapy. Even if you just took up some kind physical work now and then, such as shoveling snow for the neighbors, chopping wood, mowing the grass or gardening; it would probably help ground you, and get you out of the mind stream/mental noise. You might find it relaxing.

I tend to lean toward the Transpersonal Therapists, they seem to have a quite a bag of tricks for dealing with these issues on all different levels. They are often very skilled at guiding one to experience and feel these emotional blocks, and move beyond them. Perhaps there is someone reading this forum that is a professional therapist or spiritual teacher, that would be willing to help you over the phone. If so, they could send you a private message. Otherwise I would suggest seeking out a therapist, you could start with a google search, and find one that feels comfortable to you. Aside from Loch Kelly, I do know of a couple other Transpersonal Therapists, one of them is a friend of Eckhart Tolle's, and I know she's good. If you Private Message me, I can give you some phone numbers.

james

Re: Confusion

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 6:16 am
by soapbox
James,

I'd like to get some of those phone numbers, but I get kinda worried when I'm just talking to somebody like that over the internet. I guess it's just something I've always felt and I'm gonna have to get over it, because I don't think I will get any better until I do this. Oncelor made a good point...I probably won't be able to get rid of ego until it is "healthy". And like you said about Post Tramatic Stress, that seems to fit me to a tee, but instead of focusing on one event, I focus on several, ones which seem to happen all the time, then they get into the rest of my "events" and it keeps building up and hurting me more. If I find myself in a situation, even just a little thought or action that seems similar to something from my past, it will be brought up again and will hurt me and remind me that it happened and will never leave.

I am not really big on The Work...it doesn't seem to help me. I find there are way too many complications and emotions going on to really put it down on a piece of paper and make it all better by reversing it. I've tried doing it before and it didn't do much for me.

Anyway, can you PM me a few numbers on people I might find useful? I'd appreciate it, thanks.

Re: Confusion

Posted: Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:02 pm
by James
Soapbox said:
I'd like to get some of those phone numbers, but I get kinda worried when I'm just talking to somebody like that over the internet. I guess it's just something I've always felt and I'm gonna have to get over it, because I don't think I will get any better until I do this.
The woman I personally recommend is Lynda Cole. I saw that she has a web site, so It is OK to mention her publicly, here is the link: http://www.lyndacole.org/Lynda.html
Her phone # is on both the Sessions or Schedule page. I spoke to her 2-3 times on the phone, back in 2001 or 2002. She is very gifted, wise, balanced and compassionate. Her background is in Transpersonal Therapy but she teaches spiritually too. She can work with you on whatever level is appropriate for you. I remember this guided exercise she did over the phone with me. She asked me to locate some emotion or feeling in the body and just sit with it for a while, accepting it. Then she asked something like "Does the feeling have a texture to it?" then she would pause for a while to see if an answer arises before asking again "Does it have a color?" pause... "If the feeling could speak, what would say?"...

So that kind of questioning is very helpful to get in touch with those emotions/feelings. It lets them come out and be acknowledged and accepted. To be whole means to accept all that is, including all the feelings. Our culture often conditions us to avoid certain feelings, particularly the ones we don't like, which leads to repression. But "that which you resist will persist" until it is given space to be. Then paradoxically the energy dissipates and it dissolves on its own. But not until we have completely accepted it, that is the key. As long as our goal it to get rid of it, we are not accepting it.

You wrote:
And like you said about Post Tramatic Stress, that seems to fit me to a tee, but instead of focusing on one event, I focus on several, ones which seem to happen all the time, then they get into the rest of my "events" and it keeps building up and hurting me more. If I find myself in a situation, even just a little thought or action that seems similar to something from my past, it will be brought up again and will hurt me and remind me that it happened and will never leave.
There are lots of ways to describe this, it is really not a big deal, unless we make it a big deal by fighting what is happening, when we resist thoughts or feelings, they take on this energy and life of their own. It almost seems as if it is something separate from us that is coming to "haunt" us, but really it is a part of us that is just coming to be acknowledged, it is trying to get our attention. The more we ignore it, the more forceful it gets, until we finally have to deal with it. Eckhart calls it "Pain Body" someone else might call it a reaction to stress, or "post traumatic stress syndrome" PTSS. Use whatever description or model that helps you understand it. There are conventional therapists that treat PTSS, I think they call it exposure therapy. In other words the person immerses himself in the painful experience until they are no longer afraid of it or are accepting of it. I am guessing that there is probably more to it than that. You could try to locate a conventional therapist that treats PTSS.

I am reminded of a line from the TV show Mash. The doctor Captain Pierce, (Hawkeye), is talking to a soldier that is experiencing PTSS from the horrors of battle, (although I don't think they used that term PTSS during the Korean war). The soldier says to Capt. Pierce that he is having trouble forgetting what happened. Pierce says to him "No one ever forgets, they just learn to live with it". So that is it in a nutshell we just need to learn to live and accept what happens in life, regardless of how it appears. Whenever you start feeling sorry for yourself, try thinking about other people in the world that are in the throes of challenging situations such as warfare, famine, disease or disability. You might begin to laugh at your own situation, and realize that it is your mind that creates problems where there are none really.

I also mentioned Loch Kelly before, I know of a few people that have worked with him on the phone, he is also a friend of Adyashanti's; and I've heard that he is very good. So that is another option. His phone is on the Contact page here: http://www.lochkelly.org/
If money is an issue, ask and they may make special arrangements with you. You might try taking a job after school or on weekends if needed. Physical work might be good for your soul (figuratively speaking). There is an old saying: "Idle hands are Lucifer's workshop." We know now that Lucifer is a mythical creation of the mind. But what this saying points to, is how when we are idle, we have a lot of time to spin our wheels, to think and worry about things. So the devil is the thinking mind that spins out of control. By getting busy, working, being productive the mind does not have time to dream or create problems.

I grew up in a relatively rural area, but there was always work to do. When I was 16, I took work on the weekends picking mushrooms. I also helped contractors from time to time as a laborer, carrying cinder blocks and mixing concrete by hand, that kind of thing. Picking mushrooms was considered menial work at the time, I didn't really care, I was able to save enough money to buy a car. In the summer I was a life guard at a local pool. I remember times picking mushrooms that it could be very relaxing, I could be very much in the Now while doing it; no place to go, nothing else to think about but picking mushrooms. I didn't know what Zen or meditation was at the time, but looking back those were Zen meditative moments. "Chop wood, carry water". Pick mushrooms, put them in a basket. So anyway that's my story, I won't bore you with anymore details.

But what I'm suggesting, because you sound like you are stuck in inactivity, is that you get busy, get to work, that way you will spend less time thinking and fretting over your life. Perhaps you might even benefit from taking up jogging, or some other physical exercise, to burn off that excess teenage energy and find more balance.

Keep us posted on how you're doing.

Take Care

james

Re: Confusion

Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:48 am
by Onceler
Great post, James. Very helpful. I can agree from my experience that the act of paying attention without trying to change a feeling complex is very beneficial. It not only dissolves the negative feeling, it puts things "right". There seems to be a pattern of movement that awareness wants to take. It is immensely gratifying to be congruent with this pattern....in my limited experience.

Soapbox, I don't know if I stand by the you-have-to-have-a-healthy-ego-to-lose-it statement. This is just something I heard. When I work with children and teens in therapy I shoot for a state of "okay". They get that. This is more what I mean. Not wildly happy or sad, but a state of dealing with external and internal phenomena in an "okay" manner.

Re: Confusion

Posted: Wed Apr 08, 2009 7:08 pm
by PresenceBased
:)

Re: Confusion

Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 12:37 am
by kokujindayo
My biggest confusion is "What's a thought?"


If I ask myself "Am I thinking right now?" and no thoughts follow, wasn't I already outloud and thinking in my head to ask the question "Am I thinking right now?"

What dialogue in my head is my awareness, and what's my ego? I almost think BOTH are my ego, and all of a sudden there's this THIRD figure being aware of both, calling them both egoic thoughts - but hey now there's this 4th, and as you can see, its an infinite supply of mind-diolague using "aware'ers, as you can say.


And I wonder if all of that is thought or am I just being silly, of course some part of 'me' is going to be able to talk.


I have no freakin' clue and if that made sense to anyone and they can clear it up, that would be awesome lol.

Re: Confusion

Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2009 1:21 am
by Sighclone
Get ready to have a thought. And when you have this thought, it will be as "Thoughty" as any thought you could ever have. It will be a perfect thought. No thought could ever be more of a thought than this one. So, forever, in your life, you will know that on April 8, 2009, you had a thought. A real thought.

After this paragraph there will be another paragraph. It will have one sentence. If you understand that sentence, you will have had a thought (maybe two or three...). It will be one you have had before, so then you will know that you have had thoughts before...jillions of them. Get READY....


On a clear day, the sky is blue.


There...you have had a thought. You probably had that thought when you were about two years old. That's when the words "sky" and "blue" entered your consciousness.

Now, a harder question is "to whom do these thoughts arise?" Let us know the answer to that question in as clear and profound words as you can... :)

Can an egoic self have a thought? Sure. People whose lives are completely ruled by unconscious egos can have lives full of thoughts...in fact, that's almost all that is in their life...thoughts. Bundles of thoughts and self-impressions. The relationship between ego and Self, the strength of ego, the power of the present moment, the sense of a veil falling, surrendering are all topics with hundreds of posts here. There are instantaneous and sublime answers and lengthy heart-felt circuitous answers, and famous nondual "non-answers." That question, also worded "Who Am I?" is not trivial.

The thing about the blue-sky thought is that it is a kind of a pointer...the ego is profoundly bored with the blue sky, the Self loves it. Go outside and check it out.

Namaste, Andy