currently my biggest obstalce- i keep forgetting how it was!

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sikor
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currently my biggest obstalce- i keep forgetting how it was!

Post by sikor » Wed Apr 08, 2009 6:21 pm

Hi. I would like to ask you about the main obstacle I experience on my way to enlightenment. I keep getting in and out of this state.
First It just clicks, and I understand. I’m in this wonderful state for a day or two. Than it disappears but I keep convincing myself that it’s still there, and I “enter” it by remembering how it felt. But it’s fooling myself, I feel it for 2 seconds and I belive it’s there with my ego, so I’m kind of happy for another day or two but deep donw I know this is not it. (As I always keep telling: when it’s there you’ll know. If you have ANY doubts it’s not there. That simple. )Next stage is either I realize that I’m not in this state and I feel a bit depressed for some time, or I enter enlightenment again somehow. But this click is always spontaneous, the harder I try the harder it is. When I enter the state I realize that every thought I was thinking before trying to get here, every technique I was trying to do was completely wrong. I mean technique itself would be working, but I’m approaching the technique (and everything else) with completely, completely different angle.
Have you got any methods that can help bypass this trap somehow? I have to make up new technique spontaneously every time, and it’s working only for a short period of time. I realized that the technique is not important, the way I look at it, the focus I give it is important. Techniques are only helping me by remembering this feeling. If I can remind myself this shift of attention I can use it for some time. It’s like capturing one enlightened thought and remembering how it felt. I also can feel my ego sometimes, trying to get to control again, but once I realize how it REALLY feels I just move it back and not think. That damn simple and hard at the same point :D I don’t like going to bed anymore because it’s very often that I fall asleep enlightened and wake up with ego. And I can’t remind myself anymore what it felt like. Or rather, I can remind myself what it was like, but it’s like with alcohol. You can remind yourself how it was, even though you’re not feeling it right now. It’s completely different perspective so hard to grasp. Do you guys have this kind of problems? Do you get to a point where it’s just like opening your eyes, and you don’t even have to work on it, you just know how to shift? How long did It took you from experiencing it for a first time to a point where you can go there at will? Or maybe did it just clicked for you and it stayed this way?

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Webwanderer
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Re: currently my biggest obstalce- i keep forgetting how it was!

Post by Webwanderer » Fri Apr 10, 2009 3:10 pm

First off, I would recommend you throw the term "enlightenment" in the nearest trash bin. It does not seem to be helpful for you. Can you even define what it is? Better to consider it a verb than a noun. Awakening is a more useful term in that it points to a simpler perspective that is easier to relate to. We all know from experience what it is to awake from sleep. Awakening from thought identity is not so different.

Understand that what you are awakening from is the very thinking that you are applying to find technics, and the analysis of their results. What is it that constantly draws conclusions from efforts to gain enlightenment? Just more mind, is it not?

Go into nature and sit for a while. Breath it in. Experience what it is to be intimately present with whatever conditions arise. Do not think about it. This is about direct experience without de-fining thought. It is to be in the moment as an integral part of the moment - not as analyzer, but as devine witness. If thoughts arise, do not engage them with more thought and self condemnation about thinking. Just let them go and return to open clear awareness. This is not a "holding" to the moment, rather a resting in/as being.

Do not apply labels to this clear perspective. It cannot be identified, or objectified, without degrading the experience. Just know it as a sense of home - your natural state. Don't bother to fight with words and thoughts, it's only more words and thoughts that engage them. Just gently let them go without resolution and return to clear awareness.

There is an ebb and flow to regaining presence. Identification with mind is a well entrenched habit that (for most) constantly draws us back in. It's not a bad thing, it's just the way things are. But with increasing experience in clear awareness thought attachment is drained of power. Then the mind can be a useful tool in life, not as an identity generator, but as a funtion of interaction with the world as it is.

WW

randomguy
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Re: currently my biggest obstalce- i keep forgetting how it was!

Post by randomguy » Fri Apr 10, 2009 5:58 pm

Webwanderer wrote:First off, I would recommend you throw the term "enlightenment" in the nearest trash bin.
That's excellent.

Hi sikor, I highly recommend Adyashanti's True Meditation. He speaks about exactly what you have described. His first of three guided meditations works better than anything I have encountered in getting out of the mind to present awareness.

By the way, what you are trying to figure out on your own, creating wording and pointers to escape thought identification, people have spent years attempting that. I think it's wise to use existing teachings to reach the place beyond thoughts. I think our bodies remember the feeling of present awareness, and it becomes more accessible with time. It's natural to slip back into mind-identification. Let it be, notice it, question the thoughts that cause the agitation. Like Tolle says (paraphrase), if you aren't reaching the present, then accept that you are not reaching the present.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

cobra22
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Re: currently my biggest obstalce- i keep forgetting how it was!

Post by cobra22 » Thu May 07, 2009 11:06 am

The state you are experiencing, Sikor, is mind made. It is not presence at all. It's an illusionary form of enlightenment that keeps you on your toes trying to make it stick. But the thing is that it will never stick. The only way to be free is to drop it altogether and be content with how you are in the moment. After all, that's what this stuff is about. It's not about some huge shift in consciousness and it's not even about changing the quality of what you're doing. It's about having a free mind and not letting yourself succumb to the feeling that you've dropped the ball so to speak. My advice, carry on with your day to day activities and don't worry too much on how you feel. As in, life's more enjoyable when it's treated as a continuous process.

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