Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

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Tony-S-Ma
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Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Thu Apr 09, 2009 8:39 pm

Is simply being aware of the contents (or the impermanent manifested forms) of Awareness living in Now?

James
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Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by James » Thu Apr 09, 2009 9:33 pm

Being aware of awareness or simply being awareness itself, is always now. We could say both are portals to Being or Presence, the door swings both ways. It's never not now.

Of course these words are merely pointers to truth, and not truth itself.

james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

lucy
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Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by lucy » Sat Apr 11, 2009 4:03 am

There seems to be difference between the mind trying to be in the present and a deep knowing that the boundless Awareness looking through one's eyes can never be anywhere but Now.

sevenworlds
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Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by sevenworlds » Tue Apr 14, 2009 2:02 pm

This "living in Now" thing is a trap. It's become so cliched to say that. If you are aware of the contents of the Now, that still implies division. There is an observer and the observed. You can get stuck in this because an element of subtle concentration has crept in - "got to remain present". That slight effort you are putting in remaining present, which you see as necessary alertness/awareness, is actually blocking you from being what you are looking at.

lucy
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Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by lucy » Tue Apr 14, 2009 5:58 pm

I agree. You are the NOW is a better pointer, but even that isn't completely true.

Tony-S-Ma
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Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Tue Apr 14, 2009 9:20 pm

It seems that an awakened one can easily see beyond some pointers. Can some of the pointers are indirectly pointing at the presence of a field which is also an indirect pointer to ??????

In other words, when one is aware of the field, could it be possible the field is not It? Or there is actually infinite progression in Awareness.

Mastering the technique not using the effort of mind may be just passing the first door of awakening.

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Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by James » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:17 am

Sevenworlds wrote
This "living in Now" thing is a trap. It's become so cliched to say that.
I see the bigger trap here is the need to be the Neo-Advaita, "holier than thou" language police, dissecting words, and splitting hairs about how they are used, and what there meanings are. It is a bit ridiculous to go around telling people that "there is no one there to live in the now", or "you can't really be in the now". It is only true in the absolute sense, not the relative, and to use it this way is a distortion of the Advaitic teaching. Apparently many people are benefitting from the idea of "Living Now", since the message has had a growing interest. Why not just live and let others live as they choose? Trusting that all issues will work themselves out on their own, without the need for conceptual, language policing.

james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

lucy
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Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by lucy » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:39 am

James wrote:I see the bigger trap here is the need to be the Neo-Advaita, "holier than thou" language police, dissecting words, and splitting hairs about how they are used, and what there meanings are. It is a bit ridiculous to go around telling people that "there is no one there to live in the now", or "you can't really be in the now".
James, I really don't understand where you pick-up this "holier than thou" undercurrent you are referring to. Why do you think it is ridiculous to tell people that "there is no one there to live in the now", this is a very useful pointer for some people. I agree it may not be a useful pointer for everybody, but for some, it may be just what they need to hear.
James wrote:Why not just live and let others live as they choose? Trusting that all issues will work themselves out on their own, without the need for conceptual, language policing.
Exactly, perhaps you should let others decide for themselves what they find useful or not.

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Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by James » Wed Apr 15, 2009 4:30 am

Lucy my dear

I think it has gone beyond wanting to help others refine pointers. The undercurrent of the message is beginning to sound more like a lambaste or diatribe; 7w has been very critical of this forum and the teachers that many find helpful here. Yes it does come across as holier than thou, Andy mentioned that as well in another thread. That tends to be an underlying pattern in Neo Advaita circles.

Andy wrote in another thread in reply to 7w:
Denying authentic perception and experience of dualistic reality is a sad, proud distortion of nonduality foisted by the narrow absolutist "holier than thou" Neo-Advaitists. Fortunately Life makes it easy to debunk

james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

randomguy
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Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by randomguy » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:44 pm

"holier than thou"
That term to me seems dismissive and inflammatory. Aren't we all either confused by believing thoughts, or not? Who is actually holier than thou?
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

James
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Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by James » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:57 pm

I think "holier than thou" attitude applies to those that spend the vast majority of their time here, criticizing others in a game of "I got it, you don't", one upmanship. Let's be honest and call it what it is.

james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

randomguy
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Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by randomguy » Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:18 pm

Okay. I guess I just let the website administrators filter out those that disrupt the interests of the website, and accept the remaining. It is what it is. The well behaved conflicts can be interesting. I suspect that if this site contained all pointers, I'd likely just read a book.
Do the yellow-rose petals
tremble and fall
at the rapid's roar?
- Basho

James
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Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by James » Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:58 pm

I agree randomguy, there seems to be some value for many of us in these dialogs, even when they don't agree. It can be energizing and quickening. What affects one is part of the totality. In reality no one can be holier than anyone else.

james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

Tony-S-Ma
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Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:13 pm

sevenworlds wrote:This "living in Now" thing is a trap. It's become so cliched to say that. If you are aware of the contents of the Now, that still implies division. There is an observer and the observed. You can get stuck in this because an element of subtle concentration has crept in - "got to remain present". That slight effort you are putting in remaining present, which you see as necessary alertness/awareness, is actually blocking you from being what you are looking at.
"Living in Now" can be considered as a pointer. One can interpret it as using mental effort to remain present, or one can suddenly get the what the pointer is pointing at. "Mental effort" is yet anther pointer.

The silly logical inquiry can be: what is "living in Now"? It is not immersing in past experiences, and it is not expecting a better future relative to past experiences. At this point, somebody's mind may give up due to no relevant experience, and one can see what the pointer is pointing to. The pointer becomes useless when one's mind refuses to give up now chasing.

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Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by Sighclone » Wed Apr 15, 2009 6:36 pm

I think we flash between the relative and the absolute, between nirvana and samsara, betweeen duality and non-duality all the time. Regardless of our level of consciousness. Ramana chided an observer for suggesting that they were both illusions.

My main objection to the dry neo-Advaitist pronouncements is that they are pointers which don't help very many people. Lucy - yes, some are helped and therefore the simplistic, nihilistic announcement that "there is no one to awaken" may help certain individuals. But the vast majority of seekers need a gentler route, admiring nature and flowers, being aware of our breathing, and the four noble truths and eight-fold path of traditional Buddhism.

Civil disagreements such as we have here are fine with me. The moderators usually discuss and reach consensus before taking serious actions, but not always. As we disagree with others and express that sentiment, we learn about ourselves and our "positions." And these can change. Awakening is dynamic.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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