Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
lucy
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:09 pm

Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by lucy » Wed Apr 15, 2009 7:17 pm

Andy,
I'm not here to make a case for Neo-Advaita; I don't even fully understand what that term refers to. Advaita means "One without a second", that I understand. I think that the phrase that "there is no one here" is often misunderstood. When I hear that term, I don't think that there is no one here experiencing anything and there is nothing here but a void. I understand it to mean that the true experiencer is Consciousness and not the Ego or separate entity that we take ourselves to be. So experience still happens, it doesn't mean that you don't smell the flowers or admire nature, in fact, all those things are enhanced because you see yourself connected intimately to everything because the mind has moved out of the way.

Many of ET's ideas and teachings have sprung from Advaita, Buddhism, Sufism, the Bible etc...he expresses that himself, so what it wrong with using pointers from those tradtions to point to what he is teaching?

sevenworlds
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:12 am

Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by sevenworlds » Wed Apr 15, 2009 8:03 pm

James wrote:The undercurrent of the message is beginning to sound more like a lambaste or diatribe; 7w has been very critical of this forum and the teachers that many find helpful here. Yes it does come across as holier than thou, Andy mentioned that as well in another thread. That tends to be an underlying pattern in Neo Advaita circles.
Your issue seems to be where you say "it does come across". See, then you are in imagination and interpretation. You are being clouded by the way I am saying things - because they are not pleasing to YOU - and that is a barrier for you to actually seeing what I am pointing to. You can't seem to get past the way I say things. You are then projecting that onto others, as if they cannot make up their own minds.

You say I am critical of this forum and of other teachers but you leave out the fact I have stated that I am also a liar and that I've offered to go if I'm being considered to be disrupting matters. What I say only applies to me. If others hear something in it, that's great, but who am I to say my way is right? If you read my statements that way, that is your issue. All I am doing is making statements. I can make them with great conviction and certainty because that certainty is real in me. I don't expect others to believe for the sake of it - they have to find their own certainty.

You seem to be determined to stick any label you can find on me - messiah complex, false awakening, neo advaita. Why? If you don't like what I'm saying, why are you often one of the first to dive in and try and discredit me? Why not just ignore me? If you believe I am doing it for attention or whatever it is, ignore me and see if I go away. To me this seems to be about the fact that you have had it a certain way on here for so many years and now a few have come along, most notably me by the sounds of it, and are saying things in a way not pleasing to YOUR EAR and you don't like. That's fine, do what you have to do. But remember, the seeds of dictatorship and tyranny we see on a global scale begin on an individual level.

Tony-S-Ma
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Mar 31, 2009 4:07 pm

Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by Tony-S-Ma » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:34 pm

sevenworlds wrote: But remember, the seeds of dictatorship and tyranny we see on a global scale begin on an individual level.
Huineng states "One's soul/heart contains the seeds of all manifestible phenomena. " It seems one has the free choice to prefer certain ones; however, one is always answerable to the Existence for one own choices which generate personal Karma or records in Existence. Freedom and responsibility come hand in hand. This is another interpretation of prayerful hand clasp.

James
Posts: 983
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:06 pm

Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by James » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:45 pm

Sevenworlds
Please don't take any of this personally, I feel I am just offering balance to what I see as an extreme position. Just as you probably feel you are doing the same here, offering balance or a different perspective. So there is common ground. And of course we are all intrinsically interwoven, interconnected.

james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

sevenworlds
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:12 am

Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by sevenworlds » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:01 am

You don't fool me, James. :)
I don't feel I'm offering balance or a different perspective. I am just saying what I am saying.

James
Posts: 983
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2008 9:06 pm

Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by James » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:07 am

Heaven forbid I should be able to fool you.

I call it as I see it, as do you, which makes us even steven :wink: ___ :wink:

james
Last edited by James on Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

sevenworlds
Posts: 224
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:12 am

Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by sevenworlds » Thu Apr 16, 2009 1:22 am

:lol: No problem.

cherokeefox
Posts: 1
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:02 pm

Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by cherokeefox » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:56 am

Hello, this is my first time to participate in a forum here. I have just started reading The Power Of Now and I am only now starting on chapter 2. It is very deep reading and I think a lot of people would not be able to accept or understand what he is saying. Unless you are willing to have an extremely open mind or unless you have experienced the pure light of joy from enlightenment, as I have, I can see how someone would want to argue his points. I think there is a very fine line between the comparison. You could say that being aware of the awareness is a concentrated thought so that would not fit into the 'living in the Now' catagory. But so is concentrating on your surrounds in the Now. So that would mean there is no difference however, I think maybe he is trying to get you to 'stop thinking' because it is so hard to not think about anything BUT it is possible. Concentrating on your present surroundings is the first step toward getting rid of all your normal daily thoughts that cloud the mind and prevent the light from coming through. I know the ultimate goal is to get to that light within where all the knowledge of the universe exists. I know it is there for the few that can accept, change & master the skill and that is what I strive to reach for.
http://www.cherokeefox.blogspot.com

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6365
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by Sighclone » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:16 am

Lucy -

You say:
Many of ET's ideas and teachings have sprung from Advaita, Buddhism, Sufism, the Bible etc...he expresses that himself, so what it wrong with using pointers from those tradtions to point to what he is teaching?
And I agree completely :) . My only disappointment is one of style, not the simplistic content of the message. Let me quote from Dennis Waite's "Enlightenment, the Path Through the Jungle, p. 47:
Neo-Advaita is a very recent phenomenon and its principal protagonists were unknown before the mid nineteen-nineties. It is the term used for the style of teaching that purports to express only the final, absolute truth of advaita.

Effectively, it states the 'bottom-line' conclusions without having carried out any of the intervening stages. Instead of systematically undermining all of the seeker's pre-existing beliefs, it attempts to supplant them with a radical new belief. This new belief is contrary to everyday (i.e. dualistic) experience and there is no rationale given for its justification.

Neo-advaita has no methodology, since its teachers explicitly reject the scriptures as pramana along with everything else. This aspect is the key to the essence of traditional teaching. Just as the eyes are means for acquiring knowledge of form and color, the ears, the means for acquiring knowledge of sounds and so on, so are the scriptures (together with a teacher who understands the methods) the means for obtaining Self-knowledge.

It does not admit of any 'levels' of reality and does not recognize the existence of the seeker, teacher, Self-ignorance, spiritual path, etc...it is the (lack of) methodology of neo-advaita that is being criticised.
Waite does not label Tolle as a neo-advaitist, rather a proponent of the Direct Path, like Ramana Maharshi.

I am less upset with the neo-advaitists than Waite, but generally agree with his points.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

Glycine
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:42 pm

Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by Glycine » Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:10 pm

Sighclone wrote:I am less upset with the neo-advaitists than Waite, but generally agree with his points.
I'm wondering, where does the power to agree or disagree come from?

lucy
Posts: 306
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 10:09 pm

Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by lucy » Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:26 pm

Hi Andy,

I understand your points. For me the bigger issue is that we are getting hung up on labels: why not let people take what resonates with them and leave the rest. I don't see the benefit of pointing out
that that is a neo-advaitist approach and it will lead to frustration. Let members decide whats valid for them. The sad truth of this is that THIS IS ALL MIND STUFF, and we know it (I'm not yelling, just emphasizing). Neo-Advaita, Direct Path, it doesn't matter they all will eventually lead to the place you never left.

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6365
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by Sighclone » Thu Apr 16, 2009 7:37 pm

Glycine -
I'm wondering, where does the power to agree or disagree come from?
Hard to say. Better ask Eckhart - he disagrees with about half the questions asked him in PON.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

Glycine
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:42 pm

Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by Glycine » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:40 pm

Thank you, Sighclone,

I find it puzzling that "disagreement and desire to change" take us away from unity and the present moment, and yet they are the main impulses of all life forms.

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6365
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by Sighclone » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:53 pm

Glycine -

You are a steady, wonderful, informed thought-provoking, welcome member of this forum. I believe we are all trying to refine our comprehension of nonduality, our understanding of our experiences, our interpretation of the writing of others, and express our appreciation for the chance to talk here. I contribute to that refinement effort as best I can, often by making controversial statements. So do others. I firmly believe that the play of the mind with ideas, personalities, broad concepts, poetry, music and rebuttal is part of lila - play in the field of Arjuna - play in the samsara we inhabit as forms. Should we experience disagreement, let us own that, accept that and speak it. And let us discover how we respond to others when they disagree -- did we learn something new? - did we learn something about our personality or ego? The dualistic phrase is "one sword sharpens the other." Mental swords help us identify false ideas and false gurus. There are many. And many of them are innocent, as they struggle from their level of awareness to understand the universe.

I also believe that we in fact respect those we oppose by engaging them.

And finally, for the non-participants, if it remains civilized, it is fun reading!

I remain,

the Sighclone,

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

Glycine
Posts: 290
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 4:42 pm

Re: Is Being aware of Awareness different from living in Now?

Post by Glycine » Fri Apr 17, 2009 2:53 am

Thank you for your words, Sighclone!
It is not my intention to criticize anyone, and especially not you - I learned a lot from your posts.
It just happens that certain phrases give me an impulse to reply.
Currently, I can't figure out where disagreement comes from when we feel "one with everything."

Post Reply