Are Eckhart's teachings practical in living in society?

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I AM
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Are Eckhart's teachings practical in living in society?

Post by I AM » Fri Nov 06, 2009 6:53 am

I have been practising presence for about 4 years now and I became very different from "normal" people. Over the past 3 years, I got fired from work, was told to leave my living space in a violent way. Despite all those experiences, I still want to live in the now, say yes to what is. Deep down I do trust in life. I just don't know why things happened that way. I just want a quiet living space to meditate sometimes, but people and things didn't seem to be very accommodating up to now. Yes, I do have a question mark in my mind. Why is this? Deep down, I agree with Eckhart's teachings 100%. I don't mind dying. What is more important than dealth is to be peaceful in life. I would like to hear other people's experiences practising presence in our human society. Thank you.

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Re: Are Eckhart's teachings practical in living in society?

Post by Sighclone » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:15 am

Four years of disorientation seems like a long time. Mine was about six months. It is possible to act from fully conscious Presence and perform well. However, office politics might become a strain....

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Are Eckhart's teachings practical in living in society?

Post by karmarider » Fri Nov 06, 2009 7:49 am

There were two and half years of disorientation. Internal turmoil, high activity, apathy, anxiety...other stuff. External life is shaken up like yours. Sometimes there is inconvenience, sometimes annoyance at the inconvenience. It's all good.

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Re: Are Eckhart's teachings practical in living in society?

Post by Onceler » Fri Nov 06, 2009 1:13 pm

Sighclone wrote:Four years of disorientation seems like a long time. Mine was about six months. It is possible to act from fully conscious Presence and perform well. However, office politics might become a strain....

Andy
Andy,

Didn't know there was a time-limit on awakening. It's been 25 years since I first heard of awakening, 5 years since reading Tolle. I continue to doze....albeit lightly and peacefully.

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Re: Are Eckhart's teachings practical in living in society?

Post by Sighclone » Sun Nov 08, 2009 7:48 am

There are, of course, no time limits to any of this. Eckhart took one day, Adya took 15 years, Buddha took forever, Jac O'Keeffe was completely shattered in one week, recovered in about a year. The stories are all over the place. But serious disorientation and suffering (is that the right word?) while the "mountains aren't mountains" for four years sounds like the far end of the range, with all the new teachers around.

I, of course cannot speak for anyone's path/no path except my own. I was sort of intuiting a "statistic" based on very little hard evidence....my bad...??

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Are Eckhart's teachings practical in living in society?

Post by Ananda » Sun Nov 08, 2009 9:55 am

"Can I be the space for this?"

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Re: Are Eckhart's teachings practical in living in society?

Post by student2u » Sun Nov 08, 2009 4:30 pm

.......does "time" really matter here?.......... :?:

.......in response to the topic question, my answer is "yes" and "no".............

......yes, his teachings helped me immensely while I was dealing with a very difficult situation at work at the time......as his teachings helped me focus on those "NOWs" so I was able to get through that difficult situation by "forgiving" (both "others" and myself) for whatever had happened.......it worked like wonders............ :D

.......I say "no" to mean that when one is fully awakened, the society is simply not compatible to such awakening.........just yet..........if one chooses to truly live in the Now all the time.........

Namaste
The Truth is revealed when the mind is completely out of the way...

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Re: Are Eckhart's teachings practical in living in society?

Post by Onceler » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:55 pm

Sighclone wrote:There are, of course, no time limits to any of this. Eckhart took one day, Adya took 15 years, Buddha took forever, Jac O'Keeffe was completely shattered in one week, recovered in about a year. The stories are all over the place. But serious disorientation and suffering (is that the right word?) while the "mountains aren't mountains" for four years sounds like the far end of the range, with all the new teachers around.

I, of course cannot speak for anyone's path/no path except my own. I was sort of intuiting a "statistic" based on very little hard evidence....my bad...??

Andy
No "bad", Andy, just curious. I'm mostly okay with where I am but sometimes get impatient, and sometimes that comes through. Each way is so unique. I love hearing about the awakening of others. I try to speak for the dozing...As you may have picked up in the past. I think this forum is enlightencentic. Everyone seems in such a rush to get there that they are missing the richness of life...."awakened" or unawakened.

Awakening seems preferred in a way of being based on non-preference.
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: Are Eckhart's teachings practical in living in society?

Post by Sighclone » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:28 pm

I'm all over the map on this. My gut says that "peak experiences" can happen through the day, can happen to everyone (big E or not). Also, I'm lately much more impressed with forms of intimacy in which there is a moment of shared resonance which transcends unique identity. Like two kids watching a shooting star...or a glorious sunset...or a deeply expressed and received apology...many examples. Happens to everyone.

And I hear you about being "enlighten-centric." Yes, we are an Eckhart Tolle forum. But we should also recall how encouraging he is to everyone he speaks to about the tiniest movement away from egoic entrapment. Not every joy in every "unconscious" life is egoic. I think there are many ways to get stuck in ego, and many natural opportunities to leave it behind.

I also think that samsara, the relative world of phenomena and competition and duality offers immense opportunity for unity and beauty and just simple fun.

* * * * *

Setting "Mr. Pure Awareness" 'over there' for a moment and 'talking to him,':

Me: If you created all this illusion of separateness we call "the real world,” why did you do it? You are a stand-up guy or gal. Why would you create some big horrible illusion with everybody killing each other and fighting all the time? What do you get out of that?

Mr. P.A.: Hi, Andy. Nice to chat with you. Since you've separated me from yourself (impossible) for the moment, you are right, “I” did create an immense game, very complex, lots of testable rules, lots of apparent freedom of choice, too. Even if “everything is predetermined” as your guru Ramana Maharshi says, let’s pretend there is free will for this conversation. After all, we pretend that Newtonian physics applies, when it’s now clear that it doesn’t.

So there are “life forms.” And they appear to be increasingly capable of intelligent awareness. “Humans” have evolved from very primitive species and express part of their phylogeny through their reptilian brains. And struggle for physical survival. And that competition if true in the marketplace for employment and material success today. So, Andy, I’m just a clock-winder. I let that all be. I set in motion actually a very small set of “rules of manifestation.”

Discovery is one of the joys of youth. Discovering your fingers, your feet, how to run, how to read, the taste of food, what feelings are, etc. Discovering “Me” is an event that usually comes later. But, Andy, you know….”I” am everywhere. And I’m so deeply infused in everything “I” made, that the more “you” sense “Me,” the more you can enjoy all of “my” creation. Even if you don’t fully understand that, actually, “I” am all that exists…that the identity most people have is simply a role in the “socially and ontogenically” created script for the big play called “Life, It’s Own Self.”

A person can be loving and considerate and dedicated and go through life with an intuitive sense of holistic Unity. They may be “enlightened” and not really know it. It happens. Your guru Adyashanti discovered one in Hawaii, at a coffee stand. There are others. I can sit them down and tell them My wonderful fantastic story and they will say, “Oh, thanks, I kind of figured that. Have a nice day.”

Some people are obsessed with many of the material or sensory pleasures which were created as trivial, passing baubles. These folks are the tragic ones. All they see is mirrors for their own delusions. I keep sending out reminders, well not really “Me”, but the universe I created does that. And they keep ignoring them. Also very sad.

But inherent in the illusion of free will is the opportunity for Discovery of Self. Sometimes it comes from immense grief, sometimes from 20,000 hours of yoga and chanting, sometimes from deep reading, contemplation, careful observation and meditation…and sometimes never.

And all of it is good. Trust me, All of it is good. Many religions have pointers…the one I’ll leave you with, to end our dualistic conversation is “Be still and know that I am God.” And I am with you until the end of time. And I am with you most intimately when time ends for you, in the immediacy of the instantaneous present moment, which is eternal.

Me: Whew….Ok….I think I need a cheeseburger. But thanks!!

Mr. P. A.: …..and maybe a beer?…..have a nice day.
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Are Eckhart's teachings practical in living in society?

Post by Onceler » Wed Nov 11, 2009 12:40 am

Thanks Andy. All that being said, I experience what I experience. Period. So do you. Notions don't change reality-or perhaps they do. I think honest discourse promotes clarity more quickly than spiritual posing, and I am speaking from personal experience on this and not for anyone else- although there are posts and comments that strike me as more honest and real than others.

It seems on this forum, we have the newbies and the experts and not much in between. This seems to come about from the question/answer format. I would like to see more in-between discourse. Talk about what it is like to be in the gap, without a ready non-dual answer.

Once.
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Re: Are Eckhart's teachings practical in living in society?

Post by enigma » Wed Nov 11, 2009 8:32 am

"Expert" is a funny term when it comes to non-dual stuff, huh? The experts seem to know too much and the rest want to know more so's they can become experts. Hehe. Personally, I'm always keeping an 'I' peeled for the one who doesn't know a damn thing. If you can get such a person to talk (good luck) about how he got to know nothing at all, it might be useful, but I wouldn't count on it.

Since I'm not one of em, I wanted to jabber about Andy's Mr PA, who was a fun guest. Thanks.
As I see it, the question of why the hell PA is doing this, is misconceived on a couple of levels. I think it's apparent that there can be no premeditation, and nobody is running the show. There's just the show. We could say the dream is motivated from within the dream, which is the only place motivation happens.

So, the question might arise, if it's dream perception that perpetuates the dream, why aren't we all Awake, since in many ways we could say the dream sucks? It may be easier to see from the perspective of interest rather than motivation. IOW, just as in your nightly dreams, it's really interest that keeps you asleep and has little to do with the quality of your dream experience. When you are no longer interested in your dream, the dream ends or changes, as it also does if you become terrified enough. IOW, the only thing that can wake you up is either suffering within the dream, or losing interest in the dream.

Almost all humans strike a balance between an interest in finding happiness, and an interest in avoiding misery. If it's interest that keeps one engaged with the dream and sound asleep, this presents a bit of a problem in terms of Awakening. So, the interest in the dream must be exhausted. If there is no real interest in either chasing happiness or avoiding misery, this sets the stage for Awakening. I have no 12 step program for achieving this disinterest.

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Re: Are Eckhart's teachings practical in living in society?

Post by Onceler » Thu Nov 12, 2009 1:46 am

You're right, I should have known better than to use a dualist word like "expert" on this forum. I simply meant it as....well you know, an "expert."

I sort of follow what you are saying Enigma, but don't understand it fully. To me, describing the experience of awareness is like painting on water. As soon as you think you get an image it is diluted and changes into another swirling image (and then your perception shifts and you see those shiny sparkles and that is better than any painting, ever).

Could you not also say that becoming interested in the world around you through the "lense" of awareness or through awareness is the key to seeing reality as it is?
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Re: Are Eckhart's teachings practical in living in society?

Post by enigma » Thu Nov 12, 2009 11:31 pm

"Onceler"You're right, I should have known better than to use a dualist word like "expert" on this forum. I simply meant it as....well you know, an "expert."
Nothing wrong with the term, and I understood what you meant. I just used it as a launching platform to talk about the dubious value of knowledge.
I sort of follow what you are saying Enigma, but don't understand it fully. To me, describing the experience of awareness is like painting on water. As soon as you think you get an image it is diluted and changes into another swirling image (and then your perception shifts and you see those shiny sparkles and that is better than any painting, ever).
I never meant to try to describe the experience of awareness, and I would argue that it even is an experience. I was talking about how it is that we can remain unaware and what it might take for us to become, as they say, 'accident prone' to Awakening.
Could you not also say that becoming interested in the world around you through the "lense" of awareness or through awareness is the key to seeing reality as it is?
Well, I wouldn't say that because I don't see such a lens. What I see is a 'lens' of delusion in which we are interested. Awareness is what is interested, and this remains undistorted.

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Re: Are Eckhart's teachings practical in living in society?

Post by Sighclone » Fri Nov 13, 2009 8:09 am

I don't think awakening means losing all interest in the dream. The dream is full of pointers and portals...the music of the spheres, if you will. Awakening does mean, however, full cognizance of the dream and the players and the infinite possible scripts. And the non-significance of any/all of it.

Mountains are full glorious mountains again. But nothing more.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Are Eckhart's teachings practical in living in society?

Post by enigma » Sat Nov 14, 2009 4:40 am

I didn't say Awakening means losing interest in the dream any more than I tried to describe the experience of Awakening. Hehe.
Where, exactly, is it that I'm losing you guys?

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