Is awakening process a fun process or a painful one?

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I AM
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Is awakening process a fun process or a painful one?

Post by I AM » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:39 am

I don't know. It's been about 3 - 4 years now. To me, it has been painful. I am very committed to this. I have put everything on hold and have been focusing on practicing what Eckhart teaches, listening to his audio books, retreats and talks once in a while. I don't talk to my family very much even though I love them all so much (I moved to another country). I stopped pursuing any career even though I do love doing something so much. Also, I stopped almost all forms of entertainment because I don't want to rely on outside things to make me happy. I didn't plan all these. I just feel "OK stop".

All the techniques some people here gave me are very good. Honestly, my mind has been still active, had headache sometimes. When I sit quietly and closed my eyes, sometimes there was a demon running in my head. Other times, rubbish thinking running like mad. When I said "rubbish", it was 100% rubbish. It was not related to me or any concerns of mine. I don't know where these came from. I don't know if I should stop this torture time. I have been doing this for about 3-4 years now. Year one, I could not stand my mind for 2 seconds. Year two, I could stand it a longer time about 5-10 minutes. Year three, about 20 minutes or so. Year four now, longer time about 30 minutes or longer. But, it was all torture every time, just lower degree of torture as I do it more.

Recently, I have seen the ego in me so clearly that I never saw it before all my life. Some part of me says "You are making progress". Another part of me says "I'm tired".

I read some replies here and I feel that many people here are very conscious beings. Can someone help me please? Thank you so much.

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Re: Is awakening process a fun process or a painful one?

Post by Sighclone » Fri Dec 18, 2009 6:58 am

I AM -

Here's a suggestion: mark a day on your calendar. Mark another one 30 days hence. Have your motto for this period be:

"I am on vacation from nonduality."

Just flow with natural responses. This does not mean you give up impulse control, of course, but be easy with yourself. Wherever you are at a given time, you are. Trust me, not all of your thoughts are "bad." Just let it be for a month. No "practices" no reading, even this forum. Just be with yourself. With one caveat: If a stress arises, write it down. Don't "try to release it" or apply something from Eckhart or Byron Katie or anything. Just write down the stressor. No judging or accepting or not-accepting or efforting of any kind. You need and desereve a break. Read no Eckhart, read no nonduality.

Doesn't mean you won't think about it, but just take a break from the nondual grind. Maybe do something kind of different, also without judging that.

Then come back...

my 2 cents,

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Is awakening process a fun process or a painful one?

Post by Ananda » Fri Dec 18, 2009 8:52 am

In my experience it can be both disapointing and painful at times, because you have to let go of everything you've held dear to you all this time.

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Re: Is awakening process a fun process or a painful one?

Post by kiki » Fri Dec 18, 2009 5:03 pm

I would find it surprising if anyone thought it was "fun". Like Ananda said, letting go of everything you hold dear can be a painful and scary thing. As one egoic structure after another drops away those that remain more deeply embedded and unrecognized "dig in their heels". If you are struggling with mind and its noisiness, that is just one part of mind rebelling against another. What you are rebels against nothing. So, be easy and compassionate with what is happening; taking a break, as suggested by Andy, might be a good thing. Relax from any regimen and just flow, enjoying what comes.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: Is awakening process a fun process or a painful one?

Post by I AM » Sat Dec 19, 2009 3:04 am

Hi,

Thank you so much.

I take everything too seriously. . . . I now relax, take it easy. It is still something one should consider to do in the long-term for one's sustainable happiness.

Hi Andy, special thanks to you. I will take a break.

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Marcel Franke
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Re: Is awakening process a fun process or a painful one?

Post by Marcel Franke » Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:44 am

It is the easiest thing in the world.

No effort is needed.
No exersize.
No seclusion.
No mind control.
No body control.

You just need to see that -you are- .
Right now.

If you like, please tell me, how is it for you,
the fact -that you-are-here-right-now ?
Can you describe it ?
When you look, right now, sitting behind your computer ?
How is it ?
Please describe it......
---ooOoo---

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Re: Is awakening process a fun process or a painful one?

Post by karmarider » Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:52 pm

Well, there has been effort and practice and detachment and apathy and doubt and anxiety and high-energy and low-energy and insomnia and turmoil and upheaval. There have been shifts of great release. It's a process. I wouldn't call it fun. But it is seen that the pain is a natural reaction of the organism. When courage is needed, it shows up.

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Re: Is awakening process a fun process or a painful one?

Post by Onceler » Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:20 am

I agree, not fun. But rich and getting richer as I let go and awareness deepens. Wouldn't, couldn't have it any other way.

"Short moments of awareness repeated many times become continuous." Great Freedom

I work on the short moments and don't worry about the "continuous".
Be present, be pleasant.

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Re: Is awakening process a fun process or a painful one?

Post by I AM » Sun Dec 20, 2009 6:13 am

Hi Marcel Franke

I feel OK now. It is good, nice and quiet here.

If I can do this all the time, then I'm OK, don't need any help.

Two days ago, I was sitting in a food court in a shopping mall. I realised deeply that life is now, there is no problem now. Still, pain took over me. That familiar feeling of being an inadequate person, not good enough to be in society, was coming up in me for about one hour or so. It was consuming me completely. There were tension, some dizziness and fear. It was painful but at the same time it was interesting. At that time, I fully realised Eckhart's teachings that life is now, there is no problem now, etc. All the portals to the now Eckhart teaches, I did them (breath awareness, inner body awareness, sense perception, attention to surrounding & people). Still that painful feeling was there in me. I was watching it, observing it. Then, curiosity arose. "What happens to me?" "What is this?" "Why is this?", I thought. I continued watching it for quite a long time even though it was painful. I let that painful feeling be there, not trying to stop it, or judge it as good or bad or anything. It was still there. I got up and walked home, it was still there all the time. When I arrived home, I felt completely OK. no tension anymore.

Next day, I went to sit in the food court again. This time, I felt OK. I didn’t have that feeling at all. I don’t know why. I think it’s funny. I want to do this again out of curiosity.

Last night's dream, I had a dream that I did not have enough money to buy food. In my waking time, I know that one needs not worry about money. In other dream, I was arguing with someone, saying everything to make that person "bad". Later in my waking time, I know it was the ego running its course in my dream. Dream must be another outlet for the ego and pain body, the subconscious or the unconscious mind to come out. I don't know. I just guess.

I am deeply thankful for your intention to help. But, this is really what happened in me.

I like what Onceler said
"Short moments of awareness repeated many times become continuous." Great Freedom

I work on the short moments and don't worry about the "continuous".
I am taking a break, but still watching my mind sometimes. Just not so serious anymore.

Again, big thanks to all of you from my heart.

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Re: Is awakening process a fun process or a painful one?

Post by nowhawk » Mon Dec 21, 2009 12:59 am

Dear I Am,

Just wanted to tell you that I TOTALLY relate with what you are writing, and understand.

Thank you for the honest sharing.

I also got interested in the: "Short moments of awareness repeated many times become continuous."

NH

P.S.

It is great to write to I Am, as on the same time it feels I write this to myself too :)
Last edited by nowhawk on Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Is awakening process a fun process or a painful one?

Post by I AM » Mon Dec 21, 2009 4:43 am

Hi nowhawk,

Unhappiness is not good for me, for you or anyone. This is a very obvious fact. For me personally, I don't want to understand anything anymore. If unhappiness happens in me, it just doesn't matter. I don't need to be present, I don't need enlightenment. I don't know. My mind and other people's minds can be very complicated. I don't see how one can understand all these. All those childhood trauma, psychology things, analysis, I don't need them I don't want them. The more I analyse, the more complicated and problematic it is. I was being careful about how I live, being very serious for many years as I feared unhappiness so much. I believed that if I follow Eckhart's teachings, I will be happy and everything will go the way I want it to be. That is not true at all, because I still can not be present all the time. I know that I can not be truly happy by watching TV, having a lot of money, having a romantic relationship, having people like me, and those things outside of myself. It is OK to do and have those things, but none of them can give me true happiness. The ego things and pain body things, to me, they are good explanations, but I don't need them. I just know that unhappiness is not good for me and everyone. I like simplicity.

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Re: Is awakening process a fun process or a painful one?

Post by kiki » Mon Dec 21, 2009 6:34 am

I like simplicity.
Me too. The beautiful thing is this: You are what is most simple - what You are cannot be reduced because You are simplicity itself. When you are caught up in the least little thing in the mind complexity has entered the picture. Feel the simplicity of what you are when that happens. No understanding is needed to be what you are. Every attempt to analyze the why of things just increases the layers of complexity - stay anchored in what is most simple, the inherent natural state of awareness.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: Is awakening process a fun process or a painful one?

Post by Mully » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:02 am

My comments are made with great humility regarding this situation. There is a desperation in your posts that concerns me. You have worked a very long time to achieve the things you have achieved and made great sacrifices. There is a saying that "hard work must be rewarded for it to continue." I think it is an easy trap to fall into to want to "try harder." I think what most people who have responded are trying to say is "try softer." Driven by the deep pain you feel it all seems to have become a goal for you rather than a day to day practice. I can relate to the feeling of emptiness you describe. I think that is pretty normal considering such a radical shift in ones value system that it takes to practice these concepts. With me the feeling changes from one of great unity to things and at times isolation from other things. I think if you will look at your example at the food court you will find that although it was still painful the techniques worked because you were able to stay with the feeling until it went away. Is some of the problem a fear of the pain coming back? I think it is important to realize that all the feelings are generated by you. It is a very internal experience. No-one can share them with you. No-one can see it written on your forehead. If you ever try to describe your feelings words will not do them justice. I think it is import to observe that these negative thoughts and feelings come and go like a wave. A nice quote:

“Fear is the mind killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over and through me. And when it has gone past. I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.” (Frank Hurbert)

You mentioned something about traumatic childhood experiences. When someone has had these experiences they are predisposed to over-reacting to a threat. It can be triggered by anything........when "all the stars line up" and something just looks like a threatening situation from the past. This process is totally subconscious but the threat will feel very real. It is no fault of yours and everybody has that to some degree. One of my mentors told me “your mind is a great tool but it is not you friend, its job is to keep you out of threatening situations.” Your mind is a survival machine, it does not care what kind of hell it puts you through to keep you alive. If anyone has ever had trauma the calibration is off. It is my guess that whatever moments of success you have had are plagued by a fear that the negative feelings will return. This is lived out moment by moment.

Another important thing I think to consider is whether you are primarily a ”thinking" or a "feeling" person. Thinkers can turn on a dime, changing their prospective radically without any residual baggage. Feelers on the other hand are slower to respond, there will be a deep inner feeling of something being wrong. It is almost like a storm, it takes some time for things to pass. You may be a feeling person who is always between those storms and not really able to recover and enjoy the successes you are having, so you always feel beat up.

I hope this is not all off base.

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Re: Is awakening process a fun process or a painful one?

Post by Sighclone » Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:10 pm

Kind, empathetic words, Mully...thank you.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Is awakening process a fun process or a painful one?

Post by I AM » Wed Dec 23, 2009 2:11 am

Thanks so much to all of you. I can't say thanks enough.

I think I'm OK. I believe that my mind will continue making crazy thoughts, negative thoughts from time to time still. I also believe that there is enough sanity in me, enough stillness in me to deal with all that. I don't take my mind seriously anymore. If it wants to be crazy, OK be crazy. I don't bother anymore.

Normally, I am not interested in pshycho-analysis or things like that, but I don't dismiss it completely.

I am quite sure that my mistake is that I took everything too seriously. I did set myself up on a strict regime of "meditation", watching my mind, no entertainment, no nonsense things. There were expectations, and then frustration when I didn't see the outcome that I wanted. Then, I went downhill.

I now take it easy. Still don't know much now, but it's OK.

PS. I don't have insomnia anymore after I went back to normal exercising. I stopped exercising for about 2 weeks because I was overwhemled by negative thoughts. Then, I had insomnia. It is OK now.

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