Am i in need of a break from this?

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
James
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Re: Am i in need of a break from this?

Post by James » Sun Jun 20, 2010 3:54 pm

Glad you are feeling more at ease.

You wrote: "Eckhart says, remove time from the mind. Is it really as simple as that?" That's an excellent pointer but one of many that point to the same "placeless place". I would caution you on thinking that there is a magic bullet, that you can find one phrase or technique that will completely liberate you from years of human conditioning. On the other hand if you stick with one thing consistently such as living now, rather than continuously jumping around to different ideas and theories, which is the tendency of the human mind, you may begin to see for yourself what is being pointed to... your experience would be the living proof, not just an abstract idea. Your experience can become like a living laboratory in which the pointers are tested and applied consistently. It is the living of it that is the most important factor, not just the mere reading or thinking about truth or even the desire for it.

Have you read Stillness Speaks? I would suggest the audio version even if you read the book, listen to a little bit at a time then pay attention to the gaps of silence, the empty spaces from which the words arise. Also there is an excellent recording from Tolle called Gateways To Now, its great for relaxing and getting in touch with the feeling sense of life, where truth becomes a living reality beyond the mind. Both of these audio files can be downloaded if you google them.

And I would recommend you revisit Adyashanti's True Meditation, the recordings as opposed to the book format. Listen to the preceding explanation carefully, so it is clear to you what is being suggested. It's not about using a "successful" technique, it's about rediscovering the natural state of being. Don't worry if you fall asleep doing it, you must be tired if that happens so sleep when you are tired, don't force yourself to meditate. Some find the moments before going to sleep and just after awakening to be the easiest times to meditate because the body and mind are very relaxed, and closer to the natural state. One teacher on non-duality put it this way (paraphrasing): Meditation is not something we do, it is what we are. On the other hand, pretending to be a person is something we do from time to time.

And finally, enjoy the process. Strict absolute non-duality will often say there is no process, you are already it; that is a partial truth, which might be a helpful pointer, but could also keep one stuck in fundamentalism. True Non-duality sees that reality is both "always already is, and becoming at the same time." The absolute unfolds in the relative dimension, and this appears as a process occurring in time; yet as far as we know there is no end to this unfolding, it has an infinite capacity to express itself. So the most one can do is "cooperate with the inevitable".

Time for me to get back to work.
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

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Re: Am i in need of a break from this?

Post by Sighclone » Sun Jun 20, 2010 9:14 pm

The absolute unfolds in the relative dimension, and this appears as a process occurring in time; yet as far as we know there is no end to this unfolding,
Another great pointer from you, James...thanks again!

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Am i in need of a break from this?

Post by James » Sun Jun 20, 2010 10:16 pm

Thank you Andy for all you do.

Eckhart actually talks and writes quite a bit about the "process" of awakening or becoming more in alignment with the Now. It sounds oxymoronic, the paradox of the words "process" and "now" in the same sentence.

Unfortunately many people take the teachings or sentences out of context and think Tolle is suggesting that there will be an instantaneous shift in the now, and there may be, but for the vast majority it is many now moments or insights, a continuous evolution as ET likes to call it. But that belief that it should be an instant awakening, leads to a lot of unnecessary suffering often voiced and heard on this forum, such as people struggling to stay in the now constantly, or trying to get rid of thinking, or hoping for that big experience.

Kim Eng, Eckhart's partner and a teacher in her own right, made these comments on another blog a couple of years ago:
"People have often expressed to me their desire to awaken just as Eckhart had in one swift night. I can only tell you, for most of us, it doesn't happen that way. For most people it is a gradual awakening. There is nothing wrong with gradual, only the mind will tell you otherwise, as the mind is never satisfied with what is."

"Gradual awakening consist of many small awakenings, but ultimately each awakening can only happen now. No one knows when their awakening will be completed."
-Kim Eng
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

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Re: Am i in need of a break from this?

Post by Ralph » Sun Jun 20, 2010 11:13 pm

Speaking of "process" and "time", here is a quote that you may resonate with:

Nisargadatta: “To go beyond the mind, you must have your mind in perfect order. You cannot leave a mess behind and go beyond. He who seeks Liberation must examine his mind by his own efforts, and once the mind is purified by such introspection Liberation is obtained and appears obvious and natural.”

Q: "How can the absolute be the result of a process?"

Nisargadatta: "You are right, the relative cannot result in the absolute. But the relative can block the absolute, just as the non-churning of the cream may prevent butter from separating. It is the real that creates the urge; the inner prompts the outer and the outer responds in interest and effort." "You seem to want instant insight, forgetting that the instant is always preceded by a long preparation. The fruit falls suddenly, but the ripening takes time."

"The way to truth lies through the destruction of the false. To destroy the false, you must question your most inveterate beliefs."

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Re: Am i in need of a break from this?

Post by James » Mon Jun 21, 2010 4:00 pm

Thanks to Livingdeeply for his important questions.

Great quotes Ralph, and who knows how long the ripening will take, it could be quick or long, but it's out of our hands, as I said before the best we can do is cooperate.

Adya speaks in a satsang along these lines, paraphrasing: Awakening needn't be difficult, but it might be. It could be easy, who knows, that's possible... But one thing is for sure, it is expensive... it costs everything.

I'm now reminded of this quote:

“The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off."
~Gloria Steinem
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

livingdeeply
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Re: Am i in need of a break from this?

Post by livingdeeply » Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:24 pm

Thanks for all the great pointers

For some reason Ralph i felt disheartened when i read that quote. I felt i do not know how to question my beliefs, ive breifly tired byron katie's methods, maybe i should try this again. I feel it pulls me away from the now

Is that the kind of questioning he speaks of?

I lose interest after a while, the mind says 'not now'.. I strip it away and it will generally come back which means i haven't done enough work on the belief. Are there any other methods with have resonated with people?
James wrote:Thanks to Livingdeeply for his important questions.
- he he her important quesions :)
James wrote:it costs everything.
- I know this to be true, but how and in what way??
James wrote:“The truth will set you free. But first, it will piss you off."
~Gloria Steinem
- you have to laugh at this!!!!

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Re: Am i in need of a break from this?

Post by Ralph » Mon Jun 21, 2010 8:21 pm

livingdeeply wrote:
I lose interest after a while, the mind says 'not now'.. I strip it away and it will generally come back which means i haven't done enough work on the belief. Are there any other methods with have resonated with people?
Okay, try questioning your mind instead. Get to the root of it. Your mind says "the mind says 'not now' ", but you are not your mind, the problem is you identify yourself to be whatever the mind says. The ego mind is not who you are, they are just thoughts believed. This must be seen .

Here is a great quote:
Use the mind to know the mind to get beyond the mind.

James
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Re: Am i in need of a break from this?

Post by James » Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:33 am

He he, him is a her, pardon me for assuming livingdeeply, perhaps that explains the gentle humility. Men often are not that quick to reveal that they don't understand something, that's probably because of the way we are conditioned. But gentle humility can be a useful attitude, it keeps one from getting stuck in a mental position of "I already know". Many people on the path are merely looking for their already held concepts about truth to be validated, or worse yet trying to prove that their concepts are true, rather than being open to other possibilities, or simply accepting that they don't know.

When I say it costs everything, I mean surrender the personal sense of self, all the concepts and beliefs you have accepted as your identity. Along the lines of what Ralph was suggesting with inquiry, that is typically an Advaita approach, which I too resonate with; especially the Direct Path Advaita teachings. Which apparently aren't for everyone, I think it has to do with the "ripening" that Nisargadatta referred to. To some inquiry makes little sense, or it seems vague and abstract. It is extremely simple in a way, "radical simplicity" and that is part of what is difficult about it, when I say it is simple I don't necessarily mean it is easy. Giving up everything you imagine yourself to be may not come easy, there can be a lot of resistance, the mind thrives on complexity and false dilemmas.

Why don't you try it out and see if it appeals to you, the key is consistency. Inquiry is not a once and done thing, it may need to be an ongoing "process" as long as the little me keeps showing up. When the little me is absent there can just be resting in/as what you are. I've found that it gets easier over time, inquiry becomes almost automatic and effortless; a thought arises and it is seen through quickly; there still can be periods of forgetting and remembering again. But I've found that the forgetting does not last as long.

Kiki gives an excellent example of one type of inquiry exercise here:

Topic Title: It's Simpler Than You Think
http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth ... =38&t=7154

There may be other methods more suitable and comfortable for you, I don't know, that's for you to discover; but you can find lots of helpful suggestions on this forum from the members and moderators. I'll be offline for awhile, so I'll let others address your questions from here. And breaks are good too, sometimes a hiatus will clear the head and insights will come spontaneously when one stops trying.

Take Care
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

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Re: Am i in need of a break from this?

Post by Sighclone » Wed Jun 23, 2010 7:36 pm

The maturing of this forum is so in evidence here. Thanks, Ralph for your many wise contributions and target nugget pointers, especially the latest from Nisargadatta!

If there is a need for a rest from the seeking, it will be known intuitively. Seeking can occur subconsciously while you are "in neutral." There are many ways to view a prism. Maybe a new facet will be refreshing.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Am i in need of a break from this?

Post by spikyface » Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:22 am

Short answer based on personal experience: Yes, you do need a break

You are trying to make something happen, the harder you try, the more exhausted you will feel

There is a flow to your life, little things that you keep putting off doing because you can't mentally justify doing them, they make no sense but you feel compelled/drawn to them anyway

Learn to listen to your own intuition and follow it, the insights you seek will unfold naturally then, without excessive studying or effort
Do not take anyone as an authority on what you are. Ultimately all the answers lie within

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Re: Am i in need of a break from this?

Post by livingdeeply » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:16 am

For me, the bottom line is: I AM ADDICTED TO MY UNHAPPINESS!!!

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Re: Am i in need of a break from this?

Post by livingdeeply » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:18 am

Ralph wrote:Use the mind to know the mind to get beyond the mind.
Great, this is something that a lot of people dont realise, like most people think, 'i must destory the ego, i am not supposed to be thinking, i need to be thought free to be happy and enlightened'


Funny...

livingdeeply
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Re: Am i in need of a break from this?

Post by livingdeeply » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:21 am

James wrote:When I say it costs everything, I mean surrender the personal sense of self, all the concepts and beliefs you have accepted as your identity.
And whatever comes with it..... what ever results from this surrender.. yes?
James wrote:He he, him is a her, pardon me for assuming livingdeeply, perhaps that explains the gentle humility.
No worries James, i appreciate your approaches to my questions and thank you for taking the time to answer.
James wrote:especially the Direct Path Advaita teachings
I have read a few documents on Advaita, i have a few other documents to read on the computer, ill read some more today. Its much like trial and error in a way.

Thank you James and take care

livingdeeply
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Re: Am i in need of a break from this?

Post by livingdeeply » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:24 am

I have also just realised that i am waiting for a change, or something bigger to happen to mark my awakening. A momentous event.

I still know there will not be one neccesaraly, but i am seeking a change and until i get it, i will not learn that it may or may not be what i need. Bottom line: You never never know, if you never never go.

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Re: Am i in need of a break from this?

Post by kiki » Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:34 am

I have also just realised that i am waiting for a change, or something bigger to happen to mark my awakening. A momentous event.
Look for nothing special to happen or to change; instead, just be with what already is. Change is what happens "out there" in the world, and no matter what event may occur it will change as well. You, however, never change because what You are is not confined to the world of forms. The real You, consciousness, is absolutely content with everything just as it is. So forget about waiting for a momentous event and just be, then if there should be a momentous event it will unfold in its own time. That's not to say something will or will not happen, but whatever happens from the perspective of Now/You is perfectly fine.

Remember, it's always about NOW because NOW is all there ever is - let that sink in deeply, now is all there ever is. Just this, just this that's here right now - that's it. And that being true, waiting for "something bigger to happen to mark 'your' awakening" is a misunderstanding that will keep you looking to the future. There IS NO FUTURE.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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