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Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:40 pm
by petr
Hi all!

I'm struggling with acute and chronic indecisiveness.
Whatever I decide about the next moment I'm being tormented by an acute anxiety which makes me switch to the other option almost immediatelly. this goes on and on for a while untill I give up in pain and postpone the decision. then I'm juggling with both (or even more) options left open till the last minute when I make some decision under huge amount of stress. My friends see me as a rather difficult person and it also makes me quite unreliable.

I don't know what to do with that. It's often turning my life to hell and it destroys all intimate relationships.

Could anyone point me to some relevant 'chunk of Eckhart teachings' either in his books, interviews or records from retreats please?
Also if anyone had suffered with similar trouble would you mind sharing with me how you managed to overcome it? Any comments and hints are welcome.



Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:20 pm
by weichen
you need to give some examples.

indecisiveness can be an alias of infinite loop thinking. It could just mean that you have conflicting values where thinking will never find a solution, and infinite loop is the most common trap.

ET's teaching of watching the brain, power of NOW etc are very relevant to your case.

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:45 pm
by heidi
Sometimes we don't like taking responsibility for our decisions, so we would rather not decide or have someone else make them for us. I tend to drop some decisions, like money kinds, in my husband's lap, then I don't have the responsibility.

Maybe the first firm decision you can make is to take responsibility for your decisions. Quiet your mind, let your intuition be your guide, and stick with the first hit, like you're taking a multiple choice exam. 9 out of 10 times your first answer is the correct one.

Maybe you could just use Tolle tricks to get quiet, and then the quandry would not happen so much. How about a few deep breaths? A clear awareness in listening to the space and sounds around you. Stuff like that.
HTH - H :)

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:16 pm
by JedEye
There is one spiritual teacher I know and decisions is one of his basis topic.

He says that the wisdom lies in not choosing anything. Because the reason why we live is to learn goodness and life, god and grace that is everywhere, in every situation. There is no situation better or worse. So when you have 10 things and you choose 4 of them that you like, you choose due to your past and old knowledge. But when you don`t choose any of them to happen or not to happen you are put in all situations and you can learn goodness in it. But when people make a choice they make it to run away from something which they were running away from yesterday and to find things in situation which they were finding yesterday. They don`t allow themselves to be in completely new situations, unknown. And only there life that we didn`t recognise yet lies, hidden.
"I don`t make any decisions, God makes them for me, he guides me by new situations and knows where I should go. My job is only to say yes to every situation that happens and know that the truth that I don`t know yet is there."
And when it is practiced there is some different state- no judgements are needed, because we judge to choose. And there aren`t so much things to think about. :wink:

In my life it doesn`t matter where I will be. In any place I can look around, see Being in things and talk to new people there. Every place is the same. And when I`m in some totally new place or country it`s amazing how similar it looks. Silent, nothing weird happens, people walk around.

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:23 pm
by Slaine
Ok I got this one covered-

1) As always, the problem is fear.

2) Fear comes from attachment.

If you are attached to a certain outcome, you can't accept that things might not go "your way". That will make you frantic.

The answer to this problem is, the same answer you would give to a man holding on to a hot pipe scalding his hand. Let go.

Be detached.

You've already got what you want, now. It doesn't really matter which path you choose. "Your way" is either way. Once you realise this you lighten up and cut the heavy seriousness. In tarot, god is the fool, aka the joker.


Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:30 pm
by myself
You're not suffering from indecisiveness. You're suffering from the thought/feeling that you should decide something.

What IS... is that here you are. Perhaps there are options available for a course of action sometime in the future. That is really not relevant.

What is NOW? What is clear NOW? In this moment... here you are. And this moment is perfect exactly as it is.

If you relax into Being, without the need to do anything or decide anything, either inspiration will alert you to take action or not. All choices to do or not do are equally correct/incorrect as they're equally meaningless. The only correct choice truly is one that arises out of inspiration. Until you are still, you will not know what that is.

When inspiration alerts you to take action, there will not be a question as to what that is. Until then, doing nothing is equally valuable.

Of course you can also accept it if you are not still... and BE with that. Acceptance brings its own stillness... it encases the lack of stillness with stillness.

Give yourself permission to not know. Give yourself permission to not "get it right". It's OK to not get it right. It means nothing, because all outer action is truly irrelevant.. whatever it is. What is relevant is GIVING YOURSELF PERMISSION TO BE EXACTLY AS YOU ARE BEING RIGHT NOW.


Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:44 pm
by heidi
Choices (decisions) need to be made all the time. What to have for dinner, which route to take to get somewhere, green or purple... As an artist I make lots and lots of creative decisions all the time. I like what Slaine said about attachment to outcomes, because, in life as in art, as soon as you detatch from the outcome you are free to create and allow the universe to manifest through you. When you put your "little me" into the process, the art is contrived or doesn't work. I teach this in my classes.

And myself and myself, ha ha, agree that when you let go and are present, your inspiration will guide you. :)

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:52 am
by petr
Thank you guys for your inspiring comments!

Weichen: this infinite loop thinking feels like sth I know. Could you give some example please?

Heidi: "Quiet your mind, let your intuition be your guide, and stick with the first hit, like you're taking a multiple choice exam." -- is this the way you are making decisions? I'm not sure it works for me. I'm often not fast enough to catch this 'first hit' and then immediately my mind takes over and starts building two piles of opposing reasons supporting both options. In a few moments these piles are like huge towers -- scary enough to make me postpone the decision. What would you do guys in this case?

I'll try to give some example of how this indecisiveness works in my head... it is a quite silly one from last weekend: I went with my brother and his girlfriend to a 3 day film festival. Quite fun -- I've never seen so many movies in such a short time. But on Sunday afternoon I was already quite tired and was thinking of taking an earlier train back home leaving my two companians there. But then the discussion immediatelly started in my head: "you can't just go like that, you haven't seen them for so long, you want to be with them here till the end", "c'mon, they will enjoy themselves, and I have quite some work to finish on Monday, so it's better to be in shape" and then on and on. so I ended up picking up my stuff from hotel room, walking away and then comming back to the hotel 10 minutes later, leaving my stuff there and rushing to the next movie... it left me feeling stupid, unreliable, weak... it's just a silly example of something which often creates much more serious drama in my life, is breaking my intimate relationships (because I'm going back and forth between wanting to be with her and breaking up with her), makes serious troubles in my work (one job I actually even lost just because of this)...

What would you do? I'm looking for some coping strategy as well as the root of this trouble.



Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:04 am
by weichen
I would say you did fine in your example. You may be too hard on yourself.

You might be an intravert, why not talk with your brother.
How many hugs did you give your brother in these three days ? If you have expressed your love (and experienced) enough, you should feel free to leave after two days.

my Infinite loop examples: often are bigger issues with long term consequences such as:
making a commitment in intimate relationship
making a decision in career choice
breaking addictions

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:13 am
by Shaz
Sounds like the root of the situation is the "noise" of the mind. Try quieting the mind by taking a few deep breaths, then listening to silence. This brings us into a state of "presence". Any choices made here are correct ones. Therefore, we can detatch from the outcome - period! Whatever happens after that is OK!!


Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:19 am
by petr
Weichen, sounds like you know what it is about. "making a commitment in intimate relationship and
making a decision in career choice" this is exactly what I'm having troubles with.
I've never been able to make a commitment. After being in a relationship for a while I always found something wrong with my girlfriend which stopped me.
It always was something I couldn't change: first time it was a strong body scent, the next one was a bit 'slower' in thinking, and with the last one I found she is not my type physically. This always created such a big conflict inside of me. Because I loved them so much, I felt being so close to them and yet there was this ongoing voice in my head telling me "this is what is wrong and you can't change it". It was a torture. Since that moment I started withdrawing from the relationship which was a pure pain. Cause I still loved them so they didn't understand why I'm suddenly creating the distance. Then it became a drama of break ups and comming back together, each time with more pain to overcome and more feelings of guilt. Then at some point it became unbereable and there was no way back. I was left in complete chaos, since I didn't know why I did all that. I loved them anyways.

What is this all about guys? Any idea? If you ever experienced anything like that, how did you stop it? Or how did you solve it? I hate this vicious circle with no end...

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:34 am
by petr
Shaz, thanks for your idea. It works sometimes. but then once my mind is back in its busy-state, the doubts start shouting from all sides and the feeling of rightness is shaken within minutes.

life situation is not the problem, losing now is the problem

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:17 pm
by weichen
Since this is an ET forum, so let ET speak "making a commitment in intimate relationship or career choice is a life situation, life situation is never the problem, losing now is the problem".

When you suffer so much constantly in your daily lives, you lost so much of your own energy, create cause for deteriorating health, emanating harmful energy to all those people around you, ..... worst of all, you are cut off from the devine guidance of the unmanifested field so you never experience the magic of life.

If all the suffering prompted you to read (or reread) the book power of now, then I would say it is worth it.

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 4:09 pm
by heidi
I agree with weichen. Calling your spirit back by being present in the moment sounds like most excellent advice. And giving another read to PON is most beneficial for all of us. :)

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:18 am
by petr
Thank you guys.