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This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
Annette
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Post by Annette » Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:46 pm

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heidi
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Post by heidi » Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:14 pm

Thanks for the great post; I ponder these things often myself. When I drink and smoke, I am present within it, but it's the pre and post stuff that is not present. Sometimes I think I create addictive situations since it's the ego's last stronghold - to cause conflict within myself. It's like ego bodybuilding. :)

When I don't do the addictive behavior, the ego likes that, too - I'm strong, present and all that. Then there's this big part of me that says, what the hell, everyone dies sooner or later so I might as well enjoy everything life has to offer.

David Hawkins in Power vs Force talks about how we always have the high, the being there, that joyous love that underlies all things, but there's all the negative stuff all over the place (most of us drinkers are very sensitive to outside stuff like smells, noises, etc.) and drinking doesn't get us high, since high is what we are always, what it does is deadens all the other stuff standing in the way of our highness. Interesting theory.

The subject of addiction is very interesting to me, as I accept myself and some of the addictive things I do, but there's that niggling ego and outside influences that work against reall acceptance of just being. And, what do you do when you don't do the drinking, but just relax and be. That's where ther conflict, paradoxical as it is, lies.

Looking forward to this conversation.
Ha ha as if understanding it makes any difference. ;)
Heidi
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Post by lightdancing » Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:06 am

Addictions are interesting to me too. One idea is to temporarily not partake in whatever addiction is calling and notice fully the physical and emotional sensations that occur as the craving goes unsatisfied. There may or may not be discernable "me" ideas behind the addiction - I need or deserve this or I'm deprived, etc.

See what happens when you become present with the craving and whatever else shows up.

Anois
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Post by Anois » Mon Aug 14, 2006 3:16 am

I have long thought that alcohol can be an aid to Presence, albeit artificial. It stills the mind !

I suppose I can now admit that some of my initial spiritual experiences were under a clear starry sky, having had a few, where there was a real palpable sense of being at one with the entire universe.

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din
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Post by din » Mon Aug 14, 2006 5:50 am

Anois,

You're definitely Irish!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
:)

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din
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Post by din » Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:08 am

If I can disassociate with the thought of 'need' in so many other ways, how comes I still need alcohol, even though I know that if I am right here, in this present moment, I shouldn't 'need' anything. So am I just witnessing that need and fulfilling it anyway? Or am I witnessing that 'need' and letting it go (which obviously I can't do).

This reminds me of Adyashanti's explanation of freedom. It is not freedom from, but freedom to. It is not freedom from feelings of fear, anxiety, pain etc... but freedom to ACCEPT feelings of pain...

Perhaps it's the same thing here, you want to dissociate from need, you want it to just go away. But perhaps freedom is not freedom from need but freedom to accept need.

What I mean by that is you accept the fact you have a problem and take (or don't take) steps to resolve this. If you decide to let go of the need then you must also accept the accompanying pain and intense feelings of craving that ensue, you surrender to these.
:)

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Post by din » Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:24 am

During deep moments of surrender, I have been quite willing to die. To give up life, to let go of the body. Can you find that depth of surrender within you?
:)

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Post by flower » Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:09 am

Hi Katya,

Perhaps this is the bottom line:
I know that alcohol is my attempt to fill a feeling of emptiness in my life (that black hole feeling created by not being fully present). But that knowledge is not very empowering to me.
If you ditch the alcohol you will still be left with the same emptiness which you will fill with something else, so perhaps it's the emptiness you need to go into more deeply, maybe by trying what lightdancing suggested. Not with a view to getting rid of alcohol but with a view to acceptance of what is.

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Post by JedEye » Mon Aug 14, 2006 11:59 am

First succesful way of dealing with addiction is finding in yourself a purpose or activity that is much more important/interesting than addiction. It must come from inside, outside purposes aren`t so effecitve. Motivation is less.
It works very simple: the more energy and attention you put on new things (purpose/activity) the less is left for addiction or old habits. You focus on new state of being, not trying to judge or change the old one. The joy of new purpose/activity is the motivation here. The more energy is put on changing old, the longer it stays.

Other way is through emotions. It is not only about story in the mind, because in the body are emotions which can wake up old pain again and again. So when there is a need to drink you can feel that need inside or the emotion that tells you to drink. It might be anger or helplessness because things went wrong. And you totally feel it, allow yourself to experience it. Under that emotion might lie a different emotion or fear. And then you just feel it, not making problem out of that. My friend who was drinking all day long for couple years, tried that and he doesn`t feel need to drink any more. It just stopped. And I heard it works with other people too.

Namaste
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Clare
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Post by Clare » Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:08 pm

Crikey, I missed this one.

Great discussion!



Ultimately I feel for me alcohol is about lack of fulfilment. It is about sating something that can never really be extinguished, because it's not outside, no matter how many maudlin sentimental love songs we play ourselves whilst we're hammered. It's a huge illusion, but it makes me feel connected, though ofcourse I am no more connected than I am right now sober, it's just that I feel that I am. Then again, feelings are important aren't they? :)

And when I am totally enlightened I am sure I'll never want to drink again - but I might do anyway, just for a laugh.

Oh, just understood something else. FOCUS is a biggie. Alcohol allows us to soften focus, kind of like softening the eye to see the bigger picture when looking at a piece of abstract art, something like that. But there is a fine blurry line between softening focus and losing it. When I am fully focussed, like when I was driving for this house and this set-up here in France, for a while I did not drink at all, I was too invested in getting things right. Then when it was achieved, I found the Cave (wine seller) and sunk in, listened to music, cried.

:)
Love, Clare
"The day is full of birds.
Sounds like they're saying words."

Kate Bush - "Aerial"
:)

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Post by flower » Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:49 pm

I can't remember where he said it but I dimly remember Eckhart talking about alcohol as a means of feeling better because it dulls the mind, slows down or even stops the thinking, but he says drinking alcohol takes us below the level of thought, towards the animal kingdom, instead of rising above the level of thought.

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din
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Post by din » Wed Aug 16, 2006 6:21 pm

Hi Clare,
And when I am totally enlightened I am sure I'll never want to drink again - but I might do anyway, just for a laugh.
It may be so liberating you may actually start drinking like a fish!!!
:)

Anois
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Post by Anois » Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:17 pm

but he says drinking alcohol takes us below the level of thought, towards the animal kingdom

Yes, Eckhart did say that.

If that is the case, I'll have to put in for coming back as an animal.

No wonder those cows look so happy. Ha !

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Post by JedEye » Wed Aug 16, 2006 10:43 pm

I know one teacher who is probably enlightened, I don`t know. I am not enlightened to judge that. When someone is near him his state of conciousness changes totally, peace and joy comes. And a few his word awakens something very deep in most people.
Anyways, he drinks beer and likes it. :) And big lesson for me is that many great teachers behave and do everything the same. They just feel differently inside.

"Love and do what you want." St. Augustin


May the Force be with You Guys!
:mrgreen:
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Anois
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Post by Anois » Wed Aug 16, 2006 11:47 pm

Anois,

You're definitely Irish!!!
Let's sing that Bing Crosby number Din - Galway Bay

I know someday I'll go back again to Ireland
If my dear old wife would only pass away
She nearly has my heart broke with her nagging
She's got a mouth as big as Galway Bay

See her drinking sixteen pints of Pabst Blue Ribbon
And then she can walk home without a sway
If the sea were beer instead of salty water
She would live and die in Galway Bay

See her drinking sixteen pints at Pat Joe Murphy's
And the barman says, "I think it's time to go."
And she did not try to speak to him in Gaelic
A language that the clergy do not know

On her back she has tattoed a map of Ireland
And when she takes her bath on Saturday
She rubs the Sunlight soap around by Claddagh
Just to watch the suds run down by Galway Bay!

Ha !

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