Psychedelics

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traveler
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Psychedelics

Post by traveler » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:16 am

hello everyone! :D
i wanted to know your viewpoints on psychedelics. For me personally, psychedelics have transformed me to a new higher level of awareness. Prior to taking psychedelics, i only remembered the teachings..only abstract mental conception of it; but i had no idea about the pure beauty of silence..REAL silence.
My first magic mushroom trip somehow very magically expanded my KNOWING, and took me to the blissful state of pure awareness. I was buddha, i was god, i was all of existence. Now i knew how "ordinary" and simple Buddha really was..words can never come close
after this and many following experiences, it took it as task to show people the true beauty of psychedelics, nature, and themselves. Carrying further on this path, i have now come across DMT: the spirit molecule. PLEASE watch this video by the late genius intellect, Terence McKenna, if you don't already know about DMT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nANeYUdijMMThese experiences are beyond what any human possesses the imagination to encompass. It is very much like a near death experience, and sometimes beyond. The psychedelic trip itself usually lasts ~3-10min, but time becomes non-existent. the trip feels like forever while you're in that space; however, upon returning from this hyperspace,it feels like the trip lasted less than a fraction of a second. ALIEN and BIZARRE beyond your wildest dreams.
One thing about it however has me a little baffled. McKenna said that he convinced an old buddhist monk to smoke dmt, and after the trip, the monk said he couldn't believe his eyes.."this is impossible." He later went on to say during their conversation that if people were to do this drug, then they would see too much. and once you've gone farther, there's no going back. This reality would seem like a simulation, and would cease to satisfy in comparison to the magnitude of beauty of dmt hyperspace objects and entities.

So..would you smoke dmt? not for enlightenment, or even for a higher awareness (though they are inevitable by products), but rather for knowing the truth for you own self about the nature of reality. would you take psychedelics? why or why not?

Thank you :mrgreen: <3

alex
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by alex » Sun Oct 24, 2010 1:27 am

A fair few years ago I took LSD, I was with a guy who was a little off (strange energy between us, one of those bad for you but addictive relationships) and I ended up having not so much a really bad trip but a very strange one. I dont think I liked it and it messed me up for a while afterward (now I am ever so grateful for it because it put me on this spiritual path and I'm now more grounded than I've evr been). While I was tripping I clearly saw that I wasn't whole, it was scary... like there was a division in me, I felt like I was in two parts. Maybe someone else would have been able to flow with that but it scared me so the trip ended up being unpleasant. I see now that maybe this is exactly I needed to experience to put me on the non-duality path??
So in answer to your question, I dont know if I would... would it be a completely different experience now?? I'd maybe take Ayahuasca with the shamans in South America as I would feel safer with a guide.. but I'm not sure. I dont think psychedelics are necessary on the path but they do have a phenomenal power to open you up very wide and speeden the process.
What about those poor buggars who've taken them and ended up in psych wards forever? I think you need to be very very wary of them..

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forgotaboutbre
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by forgotaboutbre » Sun Oct 24, 2010 2:53 am

I've considered tripping on shrooms many times, I've also been offered Acid many times and have thus far turned it down. I imagine that one day I will take a Trip, for I have long been curious, but right now I feel like there is simply too much emotional turmoil in my life to trip.

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traveler
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by traveler » Sun Oct 24, 2010 4:44 am

alex wrote:I dont think I liked it and it messed me up for a while afterward (now I am ever so grateful for it because it put me on this spiritual path and I'm now more grounded than I've evr been). While I was tripping I clearly saw that I wasn't whole, it was scary... like there was a division in me, I felt like I was in two parts. Maybe someone else would have been able to flow with that but it scared me so the trip ended up being unpleasant.
yes alex this is common with psychs. i would speculate that you found your psych trip strange not because of the psych itself, but rather due to the person you were with. other trippers can have an enormous impact on you when ur tripping.
alex wrote:So in answer to your question, I dont know if I would... would it be a completely different experience now?? I'd maybe take Ayahuasca with the shamans in South America as I would feel safer with a guide.. but I'm not sure. I dont think psychedelics are necessary on the path but they do have a phenomenal power to open you up very wide and speeden the process.
it would be a very different experience. i don't even remember what i was like prior to my use of psychs, when i was straightedge. Aya is a great idea, but it can be done without a shaman; tho shamans obviously steer the trip in the direction most wise for us.
alex wrote:What about those poor buggars who've taken them and ended up in psych wards forever? I think you need to be very very wary of them..
these are a very few percentage. many people don't respect psychs, underestimate them, and end up overdosing, or freaking themselves out. Some also have psychological issues, which can surface during a psych trip, so for these people, psychs are not recommended.
forgotaboutbre wrote: I've considered tripping on shrooms many times, I've also been offered Acid many times and have thus far turned it down. I imagine that one day I will take a Trip, for I have long been curious, but right now I feel like there is simply too much emotional turmoil in my life to trip.
when you do try it, you will be blown away in astonishment. btw, just because you're life is in turmoil doesn't mean that you can't take psychs. i've taken psychs in turmoil times and have had very beautiful journeys. In fact, i think this is a great time for you to try psychs, because this way it will teach you everything you need to know to become One with your life. Many don't think that psychs should be taken in depressed moods, but i would say that that's because people are afraid of their own self...of their own thoughts. To observe your thoughts non-judgementally is the key to navigating through psych trips, and i think this is true courage.

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forgotaboutbre
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by forgotaboutbre » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:10 am

Many don't think that psychs should be taken in depressed moods, but i would say that that's because people are afraid of their own self
Very compelling conjecture, traveler. Very compelling.

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Re: Psychedelics

Post by erbeeflower » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:54 am

traveler wrote "To observe your thoughts non-judgementally is the key to navigating through psych trips, and i think this is true courage".
I agree, takes courage! It took me many many trips to figure that out,that is, to observe ones thoughts non judge-mentally. I can do it without acid now :lol: (maybe even more courage to accept 'telepathic' communication/realization!) I got from some lsd trips, a very distinct sense of otherness,however i'm not sure if i'd say it was(i dont like the term ego it doesn't explain the phenomena enough) 'ego' or maybe even some kind of communication/realization
You talk about dmt trips... i've heard about the experiences :D , i wonder if a truer reality is shown/known? This i why i haven't tried it so far... peace :)
I'm still enjoying thinking and exploring too much to get stuck here :-)

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traveler
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by traveler » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:58 pm

erbeeflower wrote:You talk about dmt trips... i've heard about the experiences :D , i wonder if a truer reality is shown/known? This i why i haven't tried it so far... peace :)
it doesn't matter if it is truer or not. how do you know that anything in this world is any truer? you don't, and you can't. It is simply for exploration of the consciousness and the illusive nature of reality. It's like travelling around the globe, but only interdimensionally. This world will however seem like a simulation in its comparison, but there's no way to prove that that world is any more real than this. it's simply different states and different realities. One isn't truer than the other.

i would like to hear others' opinions on this as well, since this is a question i've long asked myself

Jonbudda
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by Jonbudda » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:10 pm

hahaha, i tripped on shrooms two days ago! I was extremely happy during the trip and felt like i knew the universe. i learnt a few things during this trip. I learnt that you have to give up in a trip, you really have to let go of trying to do anything. After doing this i entered a brilliant state of bliss and oneness. This giving up has continued and while i am encountering tension and emotion, there is a brilliant feeling of everything being the way it is. Desire now appears to be completely useless, desire is a lie i have learnt. Desire tells you i will feel good and better when i do this one thing, i now know that giving up into this moment is all i ever needed to do.
you see shrooms = give up
life = give up
i am giving up into my sober trip of life.
ps: love terrance mckenna,
i also ate a raw pumpkin while tripping, lets just say communion.

garuda
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by garuda » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:56 pm

traveler wrote: So..would you smoke dmt? not for enlightenment, or even for a higher awareness (though they are inevitable by products), but rather for knowing the truth for you own self about the nature of reality. Would you take psychedelics? why or why not?
This is only a glimpse that does not last. You may recognize the “Truth” — but after the trip, it remains only as a memory. The same glimpse is possible without a drug trip; and with less risk. The pineal is a delicate mechanism/substance.

If it has a “beginning” or an “end,” — then it’s merely another experience, and not the real thing. The real thing is the formless pristine awareness (mere consciousness) that is the beginningless/endless, stateless-state.

Although you may temporarily reproduce an awakened state with hallucinogenic drugs, in order to “live it” moment-to-moment in everyday life, most of us must follow a path of our choice to cultivate the more permanent version of this truth in awakening, even though it may be a much lesser strength than a full-awakening.

traveler wrote: .....How do you know that anything in this world is any truer? You don't, and you can't. It is simply for exploration of the consciousness and the illusive nature of reality. It's like travelling around the globe, but only inter-dimensionally.
How can we be certain? You might have to compare your direct “no experience-experience” with someone else’s, in order to know for sure. Very difficult to do.

traveler wrote: This world will however seem like a simulation in its comparison, but there's no way to prove that that world is any more real than this. it's simply different states and different realities. One isn't truer than the other...... I would like to hear others' opinions on this as well, since this is a question I’ve long asked myself.
How can we be certain? Your experience or no-experience-experience might be but only one of many possibilities or potentialities. Talk to the top quantum physicists or the fully-awakened gurus first. Then decide if yours is the ultimate truth. The “proof” may be deeper within yourself than you have already been.

Please don't construe my responses as being elitest or confrontational, but rather to challenge you to think or dive deeper into these unknowns. :)
Recognize present awareness......... rest in that awareness..........don’t become distracted.

Jman
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by Jman » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:08 am

I've never experimented with the illegal stuff and don't intend to but I do remember getting very drunk and sitting on a bench in bliss the once :lol: My thoughts felt completely crystal clear a clarity i'd never experienced - everything had an obvious easy answer. It felt like my mind was unshackled, totally free of worry and problems, every thought felt like an epiphany. It wasn't my typical drunk experience at all as I don't usually do that much thinking or feel that alert :lol: .
Whoever knows contentment will be at peace forever. - Tao Te Ching 46
That which offers no resistance, overcomes the hardest substances - Tao Te Ching 43

garuda
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by garuda » Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:33 pm

Jman wrote:I've never experimented with the illegal stuff and don't intend to, but I do remember getting very drunk and sitting on a bench in bliss once. My thoughts felt completely crystal clear, a clarity i'd never experienced - everything had an obvious easy answer. It felt like my mind was unshackled, totally free of worry and problems, every thought felt like an epiphany. It wasn't my typical drunk experience at all as I don't usually do that much thinking or feel that alert.
Do you happen to recall the brand name of the liquor and the address of the liquor store where you bought it?
Recognize present awareness......... rest in that awareness..........don’t become distracted.

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traveler
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by traveler » Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:51 am

garuda wrote: This is only a glimpse that does not last. You may recognize the “Truth” — but after the trip, it remains only as a memory...Although you may temporarily reproduce an awakened state with hallucinogenic drugs, in order to “live it” moment-to-moment in everyday life, most of us must follow a path of our choice to cultivate the more permanent version of this truth in awakening, even though it may be a much lesser strength than a full-awakening.
garuda, its true that this is only a fleeting glimpse that lasts temporarily, but the message is eternal. the experience itself remains a memory, but the message turns into a realization within everyday state. and like i said, the use of these substances should be not just for the realization of truth itself (though its not necessary by any means), but also for the mere act of EXPERIENCING such states.
Even to know that something like this is possible is mind bending, and awe inspiring. its just like travelling to new places. we travel for the mere act of travelling and experiencing the possibilities. psychs run along a similar parallel.
garuda wrote:The same glimpse is possible without a drug trip; and with less risk. The pineal is a delicate mechanism/substance.
yes, the glimpse is possible without any drugs at all. people like adya, tolle, and gangaji are proof of this. but again, like i said, the drug use should be for EXPLORATION, not enlightenment (though a higher awareness is an inevitable by product). Just to clarify, drugs taken in appropriate dosage and setting with an intention of respect and insight is not risky at all. our ancestors have been tripping since thousands of years..since the dawn of man in fact. this is proof of its safety level. Only people who disrespect, underestimate, or have psychological issues can be affected in a risky way. The pineal gland itself is found to contain DMT within it, and shamans have been taking ayahuasca (a form of DMT) for thousands of years. There are countless researches done that show that people who take ayahuasca (among other psychs) in general have better health, better lifestyle, better ability to cope with life, and more reverence for life, than people who have never done it.
garuda wrote:If it has a “beginning” or an “end,” — then it’s merely another experience, and not the real thing. The real thing is the formless pristine awareness (mere consciousness) that is the beginningless/endless, stateless-state.
agreed. and this is exactly what psychs show one as well. but in a rather unexpected, and awe-inspiring manner
garuda wrote:
traveler wrote: .....How do you know that anything in this world is any truer? You don't, and you can't. It is simply for exploration of the consciousness and the illusive nature of reality. It's like travelling around the globe, but only inter-dimensionally.
How can we be certain? You might have to compare your direct “no experience-experience” with someone else’s, in order to know for sure. Very difficult to do.
true, we can't know. but we can compare our own baseline state experiences with drug-induced experiences at least.
garuda wrote:
traveler wrote: This world will however seem like a simulation in its comparison, but there's no way to prove that that world is any more real than this. it's simply different states and different realities. One isn't truer than the other...... I would like to hear others' opinions on this as well, since this is a question I’ve long asked myself.
How can we be certain? Your experience or no-experience-experience might be but only one of many possibilities or potentialities. Talk to the top quantum physicists or the fully-awakened gurus first. Then decide if yours is the ultimate truth. The “proof” may be deeper within yourself than you have already been.
agreed garuda. i never said that there is any ONE true reality. i said they're all arbitrary, and simply different states. the reality of the physicists, and of the gurus is THEIR reality, not mine; and my truth is by no means whatsoever the ultimate truth..and this is exactly what psychs make one aware of.
garuda wrote:Please don't construe my responses as being elitest or confrontational, but rather to challenge you to think or dive deeper into these unknowns. :)
your response is very deeply appreciated and admired, and this is exactly the type of discussion i wanted to gain a perspective on, so thank you! :D

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Kutso
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by Kutso » Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:09 am

Traveler,

First, let me say that I agree with a lot that you are saying. Psychs can be good for the individual if used with respect and care.

I have some comments on some of what you are saying though.
traveler wrote:(though a higher awareness is an inevitable by product)
Are you implying that there is different awareness's, one that we are in now and a higher one that we are in when on drugs?
traveler wrote:The pineal gland itself is found to contain DMT within it
This is just a theory developed by Dr Rick Strassman and has never been proved correct.
traveler wrote:agreed garuda. i never said that there is any ONE true reality. i said they're all arbitrary, and simply different states. the reality of the physicists, and of the gurus is THEIR reality, not mine; and my truth is by no means whatsoever the ultimate truth..and this is exactly what psychs make one aware of.
Aaah, but there is only ONE reality. That reality is you. Different states are only shadows on the screen of the changeless reality. It is a big misunderstanding to say different states of consciousness, because consciousness just is and never changes. There is nothing different about it from time to time. Only world changes.
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

erbeeflower
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by erbeeflower » Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:55 pm

Kutso wrote:


Aaah, but there is only ONE reality. That reality is you. Different states are only shadows on the screen of the changeless reality. It is a big misunderstanding to say different states of consciousness, because consciousness just is and never changes. There is nothing different about it from time to time. Only world changes.
hello, please forgive my opposition, i now realize i do not resonate with the teachings of a hindu, a Buddhist or a non dualist, although tpon showed my a thing or two that helps alot in my daily life... there are infinite realities and we are in a state of constant flux. The 'presence' some have become aware of is part of the whole being that we are,but i think it is an individual presence that each of us has the potential to recognize,not an 'eternal' (i know that word is associated with time) container that can't be conceptualized in which dwells experience etc...

I value life experience,the fantastic subtleties to the blatant 'in your faceness', i say it's this, you say it's that. No one can prove his or her way of being as The way, no one can show or know that there is one constant. Let's evolve not dissolve. :|
Kutso wrote:
traveler wrote:The pineal gland itself is found to contain DMT within it
This is just a theory developed by Dr Rick Strassman and has never been proved correct.

everything is just a theory :)
I'm still enjoying thinking and exploring too much to get stuck here :-)

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Kutso
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by Kutso » Thu Oct 28, 2010 4:30 pm

erbeeflower wrote:The 'presence' some have become aware of is part of the whole being that we are,but i think it is an individual presence that each of us has the potential to recognize,not an 'eternal' (i know that word is associated with time) container that can't be conceptualized in which dwells experience etc...
You have misunderstood. There is no 'presence' to be 'aware' of. The 'aware' is the 'presence'. It is one and the same. Individual presence? Do you not say 'I am'? As do I and every other human. So what's individual about it? Individual is something that differs from person to person. This does not.
Kutso wrote:everything is just a theory
Would you care to explain this further?
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

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