Psychedelics

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
erbeeflower
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by erbeeflower » Thu Oct 28, 2010 5:27 pm

No i havn't misunderstood my friend, i choose to interpret in a other than non dual terminology. I can try to expand on the statement everything is just a theory. We've discussed that consciousness is the only constant,that's an interesting theory,yet it is not definitive, or provable. There is this non experience theory/concept/idea/no thingy pointed to, yet it's not measurable, there are no tangible facts/truths/particles/atoms/mass despite what we were taught at school,CERN may come up with more theories but it's all transient yet all valid expression.No theory/ idea/concept has the monopoly,it's all an expression of experience and non experience.When you look closely,the emperor wears no clothes and wears clothes.
I'm still enjoying thinking and exploring too much to get stuck here :-)

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Kutso
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by Kutso » Thu Oct 28, 2010 6:43 pm

erbeeflower wrote:We've discussed that consciousness is the only constant,that's an interesting theory,yet it is not definitive, or provable.
It does not need to be proven. I am, because I am. It is self-evident. There can be no one coming up with theories unless "I am" is there. Everyone knows that the statement "I am not" is false and there is no "why" to it. Why? Because I am.
It needs to be proven you say? To whom? To me. To "I am". Without "I am", who needs proof? Therefore "I am", or consciousness, or whatever you want to call it, is self-evident.
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

erbeeflower
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by erbeeflower » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:20 pm

ok Kutso, i prefer we are :D i guess we can agree on that? it's what comes next that is not self evident. We are, i am, maybe that's all we need to know ? :D peace.
I'm still enjoying thinking and exploring too much to get stuck here :-)

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Kutso
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by Kutso » Thu Oct 28, 2010 7:44 pm

erbeeflower wrote:ok Kutso, i prefer we are :D i guess we can agree on that? it's what comes next that is not self evident. We are, i am, maybe that's all we need to know ? :D peace.
Yes, we are sounds good. However, can you be sure about "we are"?
Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that. Not that.

erbeeflower
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by erbeeflower » Thu Oct 28, 2010 8:04 pm

Kutso wrote:[.
Yes, we are sounds good. However, can you be sure about "we are"?[/quote]
:D Only as sure as you are that i am. Peace.
I'm still enjoying thinking and exploring too much to get stuck here :-)

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traveler
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by traveler » Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:13 pm

Kutso wrote:Are you implying that there is different awareness's, one that we are in now and a higher one that we are in when on drugs?
words are limited, and thus the communication gap to be able to effectively translate an experience. i agree that the consciousness remains the same...silence does not change..only sound does. But, to be on psychs is like having your brain upgraded, access to channels which we were previously oblivious. So, as a result, even though the consciousness stays the same, the understanding increases, and perception widens. Think of it like this. if you were born blind, and never knew that there is a thing called "seeing," consciousness would still remain the same for you; but if all of a sudden you have eyes, then your consciousness will still remain the same, but you will more aware of the things around you, simply because you have an additional sense.
Kutso wrote:This is just a theory developed by Dr Rick Strassman and has never been proved correct.
yes you are correct. However, DMT is naturally found in the human brain. Only that DMT is created withing the pineal gland is the speculation posed by Strassman. And who knows?...it might just be correct..
Kutso wrote:Aaah, but there is only ONE reality. That reality is you. Different states are only shadows on the screen of the changeless reality. It is a big misunderstanding to say different states of consciousness, because consciousness just is and never changes. There is nothing different about it from time to time. Only world changes.
By "reality", i meant the external perception of the world. this does not remain the same. because even though the consciousness remains same like i mentioned, the perceptions and conceptions don't. It's true that only the world changes...but i am not separate from the world. i am the world itself as well, even though primarily i'm the eternal emptiness. The emptiness does not and cannot change, since it is not form, because for change to take place..it must still be taking place WITHIN something. But every person holds different conceptions which shape their view of the world. i will see a blue color and a color blind person will see a green color. even though we can't say with certainty who's the colorblind person, we can be certain that the perceived "realities" for both are different

ShiningSoulStar
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by ShiningSoulStar » Tue Jan 11, 2011 4:46 am

From what I read, when the pineal gland is activated. You will feel as if you took a hit of dmt, because this gland naturally produces this chemical that waits to be released when the Kundalini rises to the top of the spine(sushumna). But since our leaders decided to put fluoride in 70% of cities drinking water, we are now changed by this poison to where our pineal glands are calcified. Why, you may ask! To make our teeth white, of course. Powers that be do not want you to become illuminated. All natural psychedelics have consciousness, and so do you! This may sound like cheating, but anything natural is here for you. And as I see it, the ego has already put us Beings at a disadvantage with the poison in the drinking water. You may need psychedelics, this is not the same game played three thousand ago. Even Tolle spoke of running out of dope(P.O.N. intro) way after his night in the void. Was he on cannabis the night of his awakening, I was!

spikyface
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by spikyface » Fri Jan 14, 2011 9:19 pm

So..would you smoke dmt?
Yeah why not
would you take psychedelics?


Probably, I've eaten mushrooms, both the laugh-yourself-silly kind and the "this is what madness must feel like" kind. The latter made me want to change career
why
Why not?
The worst that happens* is you have a horrible trip which is like a really intense nightmare
But I like all dreams, including nightmares because my sleep is almost always dreamless

*provided you follow the guidelines
Do not take anyone as an authority on what you are. Ultimately all the answers lie within

nodoubt
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by nodoubt » Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:06 pm

Did LSD back in the seventies ,along with mushrooms many times. My experience was that it magnified the senses.
Can't recommend it,can be dangerous for some people-I've seen some people loose it .

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ZenDrumming
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by ZenDrumming » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:12 am

I know this is an old thread, but maybe some of you are still around to keep it going...

I have tried DMT a couple times. They were probably not in the ideal settings, but to say it was quite an experience is to not even come close to touching what happens. I am still undecided how I feel about it.

When in the trip, my thoughts were entirely behind me and I was forced to be just an observer. You are ROCKETED to alternate realities, and you have no choice but to completely surrender. The only thing I was faintly aware of was my breathing. I never fully broke through, like some have reported, but the outer world and inner world did some pretty crazy things, to say the least. I was shown things that can't be talked about. So, in a sense, I have that feeling that I saw too much and am breaking some kind of sacred territory, despite how pure my intentions may seem.

I also experienced an incredible, amazing ego breakdown. I could feel the walls of ego I had upheld my whole life just crumble. There was nothing, truly nothing, to latch onto. It was pure awareness. After the trips, when I began to re-join my thoughts, I remember saying "I speak like I know. But I have no idea." The ego can be seen for what it is, and it's a very pompous energy blockage that speaks too much. The walls I built around others dissolved too, and I could recognize that they are all the same as me, and that I have no reason to put up defenses against them (these thoughts came after the trip of course, during it I was not in my body and had no mind to analyze what was going on). I just started reading "DMT: The Spirit Molecule", and so far it has helped to bring me a little clarity in the nature of the experience.

The main thing I took away from the experience is that our reality is just a projection. All ties we create with things in this world of form are only blockages in the movement of energy. It made me want to cry, because we are living in such a state of division. My DMT experience made me VERY aware of how ego-driven I had been acting before; and how on earth could I think I was more "enlightened" than anybody else? What a crock.

Occasionally, I can access the "aware" feeling that DMT provides, in which nothing around me is permanent, and I am glad that it has shown me what it feels like to truly be an observer.

As for other psychedelics (LSD, shrooms), I have used them, mostly successfully, in better feeling my self and observing the thoughts that drive my actions. They are much more self-controlled, whereas DMT is turns your world upside down in a second. Thoughts become visible entities for me in a good acid trip though, and these entities can be quite fun to play around with, but not become attached to. Everything becomes very clear and vivid, and true focus is attained, without that damn mental noise.

I don't know what my future will hold in terms of psychedelics. I would like to try DMT again, perhaps on a mountaintop with a close friend or two.

unbornawakened
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by unbornawakened » Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:26 am

This is a very interesting thread. Unfortunately, I have had no experience with illegal substances (DMT, LSD, mushrooms, ahyuasca,etc). However, I tried Salvia Divinorum a few times, and then stopped (this can be purchased legally for use as incense :mrgreen: - what you do with it at home, is another matter).

I am interested in the implications of the experiences people had. If chemicals open pathways to other realities or make us experience life more intensely or cause us to have something like an NDE or an exit from this world, then what does it say about the nature of "mystical experiences" that are not the result of taking chemicals ? Is it the case that a mystic is a genetic freak who can under certain situations create those chemicals within his/her system ? Or are those - as claimed - not related to any chemical changes but some "SPIRITUAL" changes ?

And if using chemicals open doorways of perception, then why are those doors normally closed ? Or is it just hallucination ?

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ZenDrumming
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by ZenDrumming » Fri Nov 18, 2011 12:06 am

Interesting questions, unborn. I can obviously only speculate, but I do enjoy speculating...

Perhaps our shared reality is simply one of many "realities", existing simultaneously, and all born out of the Source. All harmony in this world (love, art, music, synchronicity) may come from this source. The source can project anything, and no one reality is any more "real" than any other. Our shared reality is simply there so we can interact with each other, and we can find that with enough appreciation it is just as beautiful as any possible reality. Our level of attachment to any specific reality determines our ignorance to other perspectives and realities.

Psychedelic drugs can, in an instant, free us of that attachment and show us some very interesting things. I say "interesting" because I don't think that these things should have any real value bestowed upon them (just like things in shared reality, essentially). Psychedelics show us that "life is only a dream and we're the imaginations of ourselves" (to quote the great Bill Hicks) by showing us what it feels like to experience Being, which does not require any certain forms more than any others.

For that reason, I think that the forms we encounter on a trip (and life) are not important, but our level of attachment to the forms determines everything. By showing you things that you thought were not possible, psychedelics can help open your eyes because your mind has nothing to grasp. However, so many people have become attached to the psychedelic forms that they ignore the reality in front of them that those forms aren't needed to feel Presence and peace.

This is why I think there are so many similarities between NDE's, mystical experiences, meditation, and DMT trips. Once you remove your firm grasp of the idea that you are already perceiving all of reality, your mind will not be able to continue tricking you. You will be Everything and you will experience Everything. The outer forms, while interesting, are really inconsequential.

I would love to hear any other theories/thoughts. It's great mind-candy. :D

spikyface
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by spikyface » Sat Nov 19, 2011 5:21 pm

I am interested in the implications of the experiences people had. If chemicals open pathways to other realities or make us experience life more intensely or cause us to have something like an NDE or an exit from this world, then what does it say about the nature of "mystical experiences" that are not the result of taking chemicals ?


The chemicals take you directly to the destination, but they also make it hard to understand what's happening
Making the journey to the same place without them leads to a much clearer understanding of which ingrained thought patterns and beliefs prevent you from seeing this reality daily
Is it the case that a mystic is a genetic freak who can under certain situations create those chemicals within his/her system ?

I don't think there's any genetic pre-disposition at work here, it's all about perception
Or are those - as claimed - not related to any chemical changes but some "SPIRITUAL" changes ?
The brain adapts, adjusts and re-configures itself depending on how it's used, or the trauma it suffers

If you go by Jill Bolte Taylor's experience, both spiritual beliefs and brain chemistry change when undergoing an experience like this

http://www.northerngrid.org/index.php/c ... of-insight
And if using chemicals open doorways of perception, then why are those doors normally closed ? Or is it just hallucination ?
The doorway is always open, but such experiences often undermine a person's worldview and their sense of self, which feels like death for a person's ego
e.g.
If you sincerely believed for most of your life that you would go to hell for sinning and interpreted "sin" as meaning: "doing something that is offensive to God", what would happen if someone came along and said: "Actually, the word sin doesn't mean that, it means to miss the point or misunderstand. No punishment is necessary, just an explanation of what's being misunderstood"

Would you accept that for many decades of your life, you punished yourself needlessly by following a mistranslated principle? For most people this is incredibly hard to accept and I think that's why these doorways remain closed. The truth that lies beyond them is very threatening to strongly held beliefs that maintain an isolated sense of self
Do not take anyone as an authority on what you are. Ultimately all the answers lie within

Rubber Soul
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by Rubber Soul » Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:10 am

I really wish I had access to psychedelic drugs.

But maybe I already do...

Any way, I think it's obvious that psychedelics are very beneficial, spiritual tools to be used for introspection, insight, and even hope.

sigur-ros
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Re: Psychedelics

Post by sigur-ros » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:40 am

My first experience with 'presence' was reminiscent of a mushroom trip, I believe they bring your mind into a similar state by removing the illusory self. That being said, presence is more worthwhile as you realize it is available without taking or adding anything to yourself (like a drug). However, for those who already understand this truth, I think it can be an interesting experience. Those who have bad trips are those who do not accept what is happening to them and those who have a strong attachment to ego in order to ground them to their life. When I tripped (before reading TPON), I fought the drug and had a bad trip because I was scared, but halfway through, I surrendered and found a blissful state.

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