Aware life

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
Natalia
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:48 pm
Location: Slovakia

Aware life

Post by Natalia » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:05 pm

Hi, I am glad to find this forum. I am from Slovakia and I have been learning English so I hope you will understand me :D
I have read Eckhart Tolles books and I have some questions (because of my mind which always makes me dilemas).

Eckhart wrote: person who is enlightenment (absolutely) dont needs traumatic experiences.
Question: Many of traumatic experiences, which would happend to person (dont enlightenment yet), will not happen in case he or she get enlightenment?
For example, model situation:it is supposed to me that I will broke my leg. If I get total enlightenment before that, it will not happened, I think. Because I dont need this experience already.
Am I right?

User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Re: Aware life

Post by kiki » Tue Dec 28, 2010 7:44 pm

Hello Natalia, and welcome to the board. Accidents and mishaps will happen after enlightenment, but they won't have the same emotional effect as they would have had.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
---

User avatar
Natalie
Posts: 559
Joined: Sat May 08, 2010 9:44 am
Location: Florida, USA

Re: Aware life

Post by Natalie » Tue Dec 28, 2010 9:25 pm

Hello Natalia. We share my middle name. :D Welcome to the board.
I think I read in this forum that the Buddha died of food poisoining and Ramana Maharshi of cancer.
So I guess anything is still possible after awakening.
Glad you found us.

Natalia

User avatar
smiileyjen101
Posts: 3767
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:44 am

Re: Aware life

Post by smiileyjen101 » Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:42 am

I think I read in this forum that the Buddha died of food poisoining and Ramana Maharshi of cancer.
Jesus was betrayed and crucified, Martin Luther King assassinated, as was Ghandi and many others - their enlightenment may have even been the cause for others to choose to be less than enlightened (filled with the lightness of love).

There is an ancient Chinese art called Tzu Wei that has notions of life's happenings as being from two sources - the Heavenly Stem - that which will be, chosen by the soul, and the Earthly Branch - that which may be, depending upon choices of self and others.

No soul has complete control of anything, only their reaction to it.

Hope this brings you more peace than dilemmas natalia.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

Natalia
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:48 pm
Location: Slovakia

Re: Aware life

Post by Natalia » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:40 pm

But enlightenment cannot be a cause of tragedies, I hope.

Natalia
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:48 pm
Location: Slovakia

Re: Aware life

Post by Natalia » Wed Dec 29, 2010 12:50 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:

There is an ancient Chinese art called Tzu Wei that has notions of life's happenings as being from two sources - the Heavenly Stem - that which will be, chosen by the soul, and the Earthly Branch - that which may be, depending upon choices of self and others.

No soul has complete control of anything, only their reaction to it.

Hope this brings you more peace than dilemmas natalia.

I havent heard about it before and I dont uderstand :oops: . What diferences are between Heavenly Stem and Earthly Branch? Could you explain?

Natalia
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:48 pm
Location: Slovakia

Re: Aware life

Post by Natalia » Thu Dec 30, 2010 2:06 pm

And kiki, you have frightened me, because I have percieved your answer wrong maybe.

If happen something unplesiant to enlighenment person, it would had happened anyway (regardless of he is enlightenment or not). So enlighenment is not a cause of tragedies.
However, tragedies maybe will not happened to enlightenment person.
(it was my opinion.)
Please say that by elightement human cannot cause unplessiant situation.


And Natalie, you have in your status:
Life will give you whatever experience is most helpful for the evolution of your consciousness.

So I thing enlightenment person doesnt needs a lot of situation which he had needed before.

User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Re: Aware life

Post by kiki » Thu Dec 30, 2010 6:26 pm

Please say that by elightement human cannot cause unplessiant situation.
Of course enlightenment isn't the cause of unpleasant situations. To be enlightened is to realize one's true nature - that's all it is, to realize that one is consciousness rather than something else, like a body or a particular mental construct that is identified with. Bodies and minds have "form" and are therefore subject to the limitation of forms, which means they change - every form changes. The manner in which they change is vast, and that includes "accidents", so as long as there is a body there is the possibility for that body to have an accident.

On the other hand, that which you truly are (consciousness) is without form; since it is formless there is nothing about it that can change - it is stable and unchangeable. So, if the body has an accident, true nature is left unharmed and unaffected in any way. No matter what happens within the world of form, the formless truth of what You truly are remains as it always is. The "enlightened" realize this directly, not as an idea but as a reality. There can be pain in the body, but what I am doesn't suffer; there can be an "accident", but what I am isn't affected.

Enlightenment doesn't grant some special dispensation from the possibility of any kind of accident or illness. The whole range of human experience is available for everyone, regardless of whether they are enlightened or not. However, the nature of any experience is viewed in a different way by a realized being. They don't happen to a "me" because the "me" entity has been seen to be illusory, a fictional character created out of thoughts that had been identified with. That identification has been broken in a realized being because that being has realized that what they are is the consciousness out of which everything else arises. They abide knowingly as true nature rather than as some mentally created idea.

It's the "me entity"/ego that suffers, and it's your "me entity" that has experienced fear from my previous post. Your ego/me entity has certain ideas about what happens after enlightenment, and what I said in my last post goes against what those ideas are. Can you see how your "fear" is constructed solely out of thoughts? Without those thoughts what happens to fear? You believe that me entity to be what you are, you are identified with it, and that's why you are afraid. Can you see the thoughts that create the "idea of Natalia"? Without those thoughts is there a Natalia that actually exists? What is it that "sees" those thoughts of Natalia come and go? What is its nature? Explore this, investigate for yourself the nature of "Natalia" and how she is created and sustained in the mind, and that which "sees" all of this happening.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
---

Natalia
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:48 pm
Location: Slovakia

Re: Aware life

Post by Natalia » Thu Dec 30, 2010 7:30 pm

Thank you, in last paragraph you have represented my problem, my illusory me which always makes me problems (one dilema after another). I know who I am because I have had experience... something like satori... already. On the one hand I know I am not my mind, on the other hand I think my illusory me is stronger than me (consciousness) because every dilema seems to be important. It catch me into thinking often and as a result I live in world full of problems. Ilussory problems, which have created my mind. So I live in my head. And I feel tension and incompleteness (painbody) and I (not me, my ego) always seek although I have realised, there is something amazing inside me (what I realy am), deeper than thoughts. I dont know how to face up against my painbody and ego. I dont have courage. I cannot accept it (and probably it is my main problem).

User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4586
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Re: Aware life

Post by kiki » Thu Dec 30, 2010 8:14 pm

I cannot accept it (and probably it is my main problem).
That's right. So, if it's present then why resist it, why not accept that the painbody is here? Allow it to be here since it is here. Instead of trying to find a way around the pain go through it by accepting its presence without expectation of any particular outcome. This is surrender. What You are naturally and effortlessly surrenders to whatever arises, but only an ego would resist what's present. Which are You?

By allowing the pain and suffering to be felt you are no longer feeding the egoic entity additional energy to keep it spinning away. By allowing the energy of what is felt to be present you are giving it room to exist and finally expend itself, and when it does you will feel more open and expansive. Keep the story out of what is felt; that's just more thoughts/ideas and those help to create a feedback loop back into the pain. Stop following the story line of the pain and just feel what is felt and accept it. It's the resistance to what's present that makes you feel closed, limited and small, and resistance always originates from ego. That which "sees" all of this happening is consciousness itself. That consciousness cannot do anything other than see and allow whatever arises to arise. That consciousness is still, silent, and ever present; it demands nothing, expects nothing, resists nothing, holds onto nothing - it simply is. That is where freedom is.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
---

User avatar
smiileyjen101
Posts: 3767
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:44 am

Re: Aware life

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 1:00 am

Natalia in its easiest understanding it is not what happens that matters, or in many cases that is in your control. It is what you do / think / feel that matters and the only thing that you have any control over.

What is happening right now cannot really be judged by one person involved as either 'good' or 'bad' - it just is.

When/if you accept that and use love and compassion in your responses there is peace within you, that can flow out of you - but even then anyone else involved has their own choices and control over them.

What ET tells us is that the ego will make an enemy, obstacle or means to an end of a thing / person / situation.

If you are enlightened you choose consciously not to do that and therefore no matter what is happening you and others around you suffer less (if they choose).

So being enlightened protects you only from the suffering you would have caused yourself in any situation - not stopping the actual 'thing' from happening.

If you think your mind creates these problems look at if you are making an enemy, obstacle or means to an end of something in the problem - and realise you can choose not to. If someone else is making an enemy, obstacle or means to an end of a thing realise that and either try to help them change their choices or accept it.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

Natalia
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:48 pm
Location: Slovakia

Re: Aware life

Post by Natalia » Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:13 pm

Thank you.

User avatar
smiileyjen101
Posts: 3767
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:44 am

Re: Aware life

Post by smiileyjen101 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:07 am

Natalia, I feel to say be gentle with you as you gain this understanding. Give yourself love and understanding first. Be kind to you first. Then it can flood out to those around you.

At the very least you may be feeling disappointed if you thought enlightenment was protection against 'bad' things happening.

Disappointment is only the distance between your expectations and reality. Once you know what reality is you can adjust your expectations.
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen
http://www.balancinginfluences.com

User avatar
Mouse
Posts: 377
Joined: Fri Jun 11, 2010 1:15 pm
Location: Kyogle, Australia

Re: Aware life

Post by Mouse » Sat Jan 01, 2011 1:26 am

Are you asking about Karma, Natalia?

This is the effect that the unhappy self has on the circumstances of our life. If this is eliminated then the circumstances of life become more easy.

I see this happening in my life and that is why I point to being free of negativity as a way of living. It has an effect on circumstance.

Is this what you are interested in?
I have been inspired by Barry Long's teaching and I write this so as to acknowledge my source of inspiration. It is a wonderful help, and it is a wonderful gift.

Natalia
Posts: 76
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2010 4:48 pm
Location: Slovakia

Re: Aware life

Post by Natalia » Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:46 am

Thank all of you for your answers. I have understood bether, that elightenment isnt protection. The main benefit is life without suffering (desire, resistance).
Mouse wrote: I see this happening in my life and that is why I point to being free of negativity as a way of living. It has an effect on circumstance.
Thanks Mouse, it was my question.

So, simply, I shouldnt contradicted to life.

And I dare to say again :oops: : aware human doesnt need some situation, which he would have needed before. (dont wrath to me that I repeat my question although you have answered already).

I am sorry for my English :oops: .

Post Reply