life purpose/fear

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
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Natalie
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Re: life purpose/fear

Post by Natalie » Thu May 26, 2011 1:16 am

The particular Tolle’s quote being discussed here resonates with me because the emotional suffering caused by a certain life situation led me to his books, and his books facilitated the realization that I was not my life situation. This realization, gradually, but fundamentally, shifted my view of that particular life situation. It also shifted how I relate to and feel about that particular life situation. This 'shifting' dissolved the emotional suffering and replaced it with a level of acceptance and gratitude I would have never believed I could experience.

If viewed or approached this way, life did provide an experience that was very helpful to the evolution of my consciousness. It's hard for me to imagine a more effective experience. I equate ‘evolution’ to the process or transformation that followed the realization that I was not my life situation or my thoughts about it. I evolved from being a depressed, anxious and addicted person to feeling joyous and free the vast majority of the time.

"Life will give you whatever experience is most helpful for the evolution of your consciousness. How do you know this is the experience you need? Because this is the experience you are having at the moment."

The quote is written in a way that could be interpreted as if there is a divine order of some kind in charge of our lives and I can understand why this would turn some of us off.

Natalie

snowheight
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Re: life purpose/fear

Post by snowheight » Thu May 26, 2011 5:05 pm

Natalie wrote: The quote is written in a way that could be interpreted as if there is a divine order of some kind in charge of our lives and I can understand why this would turn some of us off.
So it would seem that you were able to see and feel what Tolle meant by that quote beyond the literal expression that can be understood by the mind. Perhaps you can do that again now when I write that I'm happy for you to have experienced this
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

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Sighclone
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Re: life purpose/fear

Post by Sighclone » Thu May 26, 2011 6:44 pm

As you said, it's a disorder of the ego and I believe that most conventional counseling will try and patch up your ego instead of letting it go. I see in light of Tolle's theory that my worry is simply a stubborn part of my ego that with time will disappear.
Many spiritual teachers have found that egoic fixations are strong enough that they can be 'loosened' by conventional counseling, moreover, certain egoic structures are so strong (even if dysfunctional) that the ego cannot "be released" until they are weakened. Adya has spoken of this. There is great irony here, in that a certain level of "self-confidence" (which may well have egoic roots) is needed before we can see through the whole charade. The "law of the farm" still operates even on the level of the spirit. ( The ground must be prepared, etc. ) Yes, even a deeply egoic person like Eckhart was before his stunning breakthrough can be reached by Grace. But remember how long he took to integrate that experience within the framework of the rest of his life...there were two years on the park bench, and more time embodying his shift.

I will send you the list by PM. And I'm not saying you can't do this alone...but there are professionals who are also spiritually advanced.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Riken
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Re: life purpose/fear

Post by Riken » Thu May 26, 2011 6:54 pm

Sighclone, do you actually think self-confidence is necessary?
I for one think its just another idea that can be seen as yet another hurdle to some seekers. E.g 'i must be confident before i can know what i really am.'

chances are if your somewhat invested in this 'journey' anyway you know that to some extent that self confidence is hollow anyway because theres no self (little me wise) to be confident in anyway.

Its simply not needed and i can attest to this

What we really are transcends all ideas of self anyway.
"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players"

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Natalie
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Re: life purpose/fear

Post by Natalie » Thu May 26, 2011 7:14 pm

"So it would seem that you were able to see and feel what Tolle meant by that quote beyond the literal expression that can be understood by the mind. Perhaps you can do that again now when I write that I'm happy for you to have experienced this."

Yes I was, snowheight, I was, and thank you for being happy for me.

I sometimes feel guided by 'something', as if I am floating through life and whatever I need to attend to just pops-up at the right time it needs to be attended to. I call that 'something' Universe which confuses the heck out of my 8 year old, who has asked, after observing my reaction to a good report card: "What does Jupiter have to do with me getting good grades?", but I really cannot bring myself to use the 'G' word. I know I am attached to the aversion I feel for organized religion, but even this aversion is not real, so I don't worry about it. My take on it is that if I feel this way is because it is the way I am supposed to be feeling at this time.

natalie
Last edited by Natalie on Fri May 27, 2011 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

snowheight
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Re: life purpose/fear

Post by snowheight » Thu May 26, 2011 8:38 pm

Sighclone wrote:
As you said, it's a disorder of the ego and I believe that most conventional counseling will try and patch up your ego instead of letting it go. I see in light of Tolle's theory that my worry is simply a stubborn part of my ego that with time will disappear.
Many spiritual teachers have found that egoic fixations are strong enough that they can be 'loosened' by conventional counseling, moreover, certain egoic structures are so strong (even if dysfunctional) that the ego cannot "be released" until they are weakened. Adya has spoken of this. There is great irony here, in that a certain level of "self-confidence" (which may well have egoic roots) is needed before we can see through the whole charade. The "law of the farm" still operates even on the level of the spirit. ( The ground must be prepared, etc. ) Yes, even a deeply egoic person like Eckhart was before his stunning breakthrough can be reached by Grace. But remember how long he took to integrate that experience within the framework of the rest of his life...there were two years on the park bench, and more time embodying his shift.

I will send you the list by PM. And I'm not saying you can't do this alone...but there are professionals who are also spiritually advanced.

Andy
Riken wrote:Sighclone, do you actually think self-confidence is necessary?
I for one think its just another idea that can be seen as yet another hurdle to some seekers. E.g 'i must be confident before i can know what i really am.'

chances are if your somewhat invested in this 'journey' anyway you know that to some extent that self confidence is hollow anyway because theres no self (little me wise) to be confident in anyway.

Its simply not needed and i can attest to this

What we really are transcends all ideas of self anyway.
Two things both "true":

1) "if not now, when?" -- the time to become acquainted with one's true nature is always NOW.

2) The message of one's true nature cannot be forced on an apparent individual. They will accept it when "they are ready for it". The proof of this is all of the "unconscious" apparent individuals that can be easily observed.

Everyone is always Ready for it but some people are not ready for it -- or rather whatever the form that will catalyze recognition of "it" for them hasn't been presented to them.

Same ole' paradox, many different guises.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

snowheight
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Re: life purpose/fear

Post by snowheight » Thu May 26, 2011 8:48 pm

Natalie wrote:"So it would seem that you were able to see and feel what Tolle meant by that quote beyond the literal expression that can be understood by the mind. Perhaps you can do that again now when I write that I'm happy for you to have experienced this."

Yes I was, snowheight, I was, and thank you for being happy for me.

I sometimes feel guided by 'something', as if I am floating through life and whatever I need to attend to just pops-up at the right time it needs to be attended to. I call that 'something' Universe which confuses the heck out of my 8 year old, who has asked, after observing my reaction to a good report card: "Why does Jupiter have to do with me getting good grades?", but I really cannot bring myself to use the 'G' word. I know I am attached to the aversion I feel for organized religion, but even this aversion is not real, so I don't worry about it. My take on it is that if I feel this way is because it is the way I am supposed to be feeling at this time.

natalie
Hey Nat', replied to you here.
Stop talking. Hear every sound as background. Look straight ahead and focus. Take one deep breath. This is you. This is Now.

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Re: life purpose/fear

Post by hanss » Thu May 26, 2011 9:25 pm

Natalie wrote:"Why does Jupiter have to do with me getting good grades?"
:lol:
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
(Eckhart Tolle)

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Re: life purpose/fear

Post by Sighclone » Fri May 27, 2011 12:30 am

Sighclone, do you actually think self-confidence is necessary?
I for one think its just another idea that can be seen as yet another hurdle to some seekers. E.g 'i must be confident before i can know what i really am.'
chances are if your somewhat invested in this 'journey' anyway you know that to some extent that self confidence is hollow anyway because theres no self (little me wise) to be confident in anyway.
Its simply not needed and i can attest to this
What we really are transcends all ideas of self anyway.

Oddly it seems to be true that a certain level of "self-esteem" or secure sense of self is required to pass throght the gateless gate. Adya has had some severely disturbed people try to "wake up" and he will send them to conventional counseling first. Despite the truth in "What we really are transcends all ideas of self anyway," the realization of Self, for more than a microsecond, appears to require some kind of fundamental psychological stability.

I did not know this, not did it seem to be necessary, but conversations at the first "Science and Nonduality Converence" (http://www.scienceandnonduality.com) in October, 2009, and other readings from the "Nondual Wisdom and Psychology Institute" (http://wisdompsy.vpweb.com/) clarified the empirical experience of awakened therapists and teachers.

There is a period of dislocation, of disorientation when we realize that the motivations and habits long ago embedded by egoic behavior are trivial, and delusional. It's a tough period -- I have probably read 100 posters here who have struggled with that. It was tough for me, too. Fortunately, I had enough residual income for six months to just bump around in my "new" life before the new perspective in unity consciousness could integrate with what is ironically called "real life."

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: life purpose/fear

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri May 27, 2011 1:14 pm

If it weren't caused by ego it wouldn't give me worries about the future, since the enjoyment would come from making music this very moment.
...do it anyway....

Music is a wonderful experience of creation or of sharing, what you are speaking of above is using it as a 'means to an end' and then your fears / expectations etc are using it as an obstacle or an enemy (to happiness) so yes in this context ego, ego, ego.

But seeing as you love music and you have the urge to create and express through music it can be a wonderful practice in BEING and in putting joy into one or many moments. Whether it is just for you, heard only by you or by a mob of world wide adoring fans makes no difference to joy you can express by creating it for its own self, without judgement or thought of reward or recognition or any other external thing. Just is.. (bliss)

A pure note, a scale soaring, a combining of notes into chords.... YUM!!

If you would do it for nothing, do it anyway...
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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Re: life purpose/fear

Post by smiileyjen101 » Fri May 27, 2011 1:22 pm

I call that 'something' Universe which confuses the heck out of my 8 year old, who has asked, after observing my reaction to a good report card: "What does Jupiter have to do with me getting good grades?", but I really cannot bring myself to use the 'G' word. I know I am attached to the aversion I feel for organized religion, but even this aversion is not real, so I don't worry about it. My take on it is that if I feel this way is because it is the way I am supposed to be feeling at this time.
:D No matter how far we go not to pigeon hole ourselves so people won't misunderstand us, we always manage to one way or another.

I used to use 'universe' too Natalie. Only after reading your post here did I realise I'd let go of the aversion to the point that it doesn't matter what I or anyone else calls 'it' / the 'all' :roll:
Our rights start deep within our humanity; they end where another's begin~~ SmileyJen

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WhatisMu
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Re: life purpose/fear

Post by WhatisMu » Fri May 27, 2011 5:42 pm

Yes it's terrific feeling! I wish I could just maintain that objective view in every situation I encounter, but I'm not there yet. There are still plenty of situations that make me think: "Ok I know about the awareness stuff, but THIS is a special situation!!"

You have a great day too![/quote]

LOL! At least we can look at those instances with clarity... afterward... :)
“In dwelling, live close to the ground. In thinking, keep to the simple. In conflict, be fair and generous. In governing, don't try to control. In work, do what you enjoy. In family life, be completely present.”
- Tao Te Ching

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